Gary ~ What's The Plan For Diamond Lil ? 2006 and Beyond!

Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:37 pm

Shay (and all), here are some photos of AM927 after it was converted to a transport and still in it's War time colors. I am hoping to get you some photos of it before it was converted. But this is what I have for the moment........

With the short nose and original firewall forward setup.......

With the long nose and PBY firewall forward setup.......

Gary

Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:40 pm

Great work you guys are doing. As for the remaining flyable B-24's, would you count the one at Fantasy of Flight? I know it is not flown on a regular basis, but it does fly.

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:21 pm

When is the last time Kermit's B-24 took to the skies?

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:34 pm

If I recall, I don't think Kermit has flown his B-24 in a while now. Probably just an issue of having so many other toys in his garage.

I think a sad aspect of the LB-30/B-24 question and the Collings Foundation's promotion of their aircraft is not specific designations (because we all know that the general public at best can say that "it's an old plane with 4 engines), but it's the disappointment that there are so few of the type existing or flight-capable in the first place. With somewhere around 15 or so B-17s flying at least occasionally or being restored to flight condition, it's astonishing that the U.S. aircraft with the highest production totals has so few airframes remaining. It truly surprises me that with all of the effort several groups have made to obtain and restore fragments of B-17 airframes into complete flying examples, there have been no real efforts to do the same with B-24s. Seems to me that it would be a more desirable aircraft for airshows with its rarity.

I also have a hunch that if there were a dozen or so B-24s flying, the Collings Foundation promotion and the "what is Lil" questions would be moot issues. Just makes me appreciate all of Gary's hard work even more. Way to go Gary!!!

kevin

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:39 pm

I think Gary is doing a great job, and I consider Lil every bit a B-24.

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:40 pm

I thought I had heard that the B-24 at FoF had issues with the spar(?) and would take a lot of work and $$ to make airworthy again. I hope I am incorrect on this - it would be great to see another B-24 flying.

Tom P.

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:59 pm

tulsaboy wrote:If I recall, I don't think Kermit has flown his B-24 in a while now. Probably just an issue of having so many other toys in his garage.

I think a sad aspect of the LB-30/B-24 question and the Collings Foundation's promotion of their aircraft is not specific designations (because we all know that the general public at best can say that "it's an old plane with 4 engines), but it's the disappointment that there are so few of the type existing or flight-capable in the first place. With somewhere around 15 or so B-17s flying at least occasionally or being restored to flight condition, it's astonishing that the U.S. aircraft with the highest production totals has so few airframes remaining. It truly surprises me that with all of the effort several groups have made to obtain and restore fragments of B-17 airframes into complete flying examples, there have been no real efforts to do the same with B-24s. Seems to me that it would be a more desirable aircraft for airshows with its rarity.

I also have a hunch that if there were a dozen or so B-24s flying, the Collings Foundation promotion and the "what is Lil" questions would be moot issues. Just makes me appreciate all of Gary's hard work even more. Way to go Gary!!!

kevin

Interesting thought, why is it that no one is going out trying to find B-24s. Is it really that they just don't exist? Or is it more expensive to run? Or simply is it the fact that B-17s get more glory?

Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:02 pm

mustangdriver wrote:Great work you guys are doing. As for the remaining flyable B-24's, would you count the one at Fantasy of Flight? I know it is not flown on a regular basis, but it does fly.

In my book, if the aircraft hasn't flown in a year, it is not immediatly flyable.
We all know that after sitting for a time, things happen that need to be checked, cleaned and an annual done. It doesn't mean the aircraft is incapable of flight, it's just that it isn't flyable at the moment, either legally or mechanically.
I would not classify Week's B-24 as "flyable" since it hasn't flown in several years. Just because it did fly to where it is now housed doesn't make it permently "flyable".
Is the Lancaster "Just Jane" considered flyable? I would venture that it is capable of flight, but most people probably consider it a non-flyer at the moment.
Of the 25 or so Corsairs that are capable of flight or have flown in the last 15-20 years, how many are flown regularly? 15-18 tops?
War Eagles, Kalmazoo, EAA, etc. all haven't flown in the last year (to my knowledge) so I consider those not currently flyable.

Well;
now that I've run over at the mouth I've started to think a little clearer: maybe the answer for this question is the definition of Airworthy vs. Flyable?

The FAA doesn't say an aircraft has to be "Flyable", they just want it leagally "Airworthy".

Of course, you could take the other tack and say that anything is flyable with enough power, regardless of it being actually airworthy!

Maybe this would be a good discussion topic for WIX?
Blue skies,
Jerry

Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:52 pm

Well, I'll let y'all hash this out for the next few days. I'll be on my way to South Texas in the morning to start relocating that PBY that Mark Pilkington won at auction to my back yard for a while. I'll try to get Mike Henninger the co-ordinates so y'all can see it sitting there. :wink:

Anyway, I won't have any B-24 updates until I get back, so don't yell at me from wondering where the updates are.

Gary

Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:57 pm

Make sure and let us know when you actually make the move. I suppose you will be coming through my area on te way to Midland.

Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:02 pm

King wrote:Make sure and let us know when you actually make the move. I suppose you will be coming through my area on te way to Midland.

We'll be loading the airplane up on Thursday morning and off-loading it at my house on Friday afternoon.

Gary

Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:03 pm

What's your planned route to Midland?

Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:15 pm

I'll be on my way to South Texas in the morning to start relocating that PBY that Mark Pilkington won at auction to my back yard for a while

Gary,

Plenty of pictures please.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:18 pm

PhantomAce08 wrote:Interesting thought, why is it that no one is going out trying to find B-24s. Is it really that they just don't exist? Or is it more expensive to run? Or simply is it the fact that B-17s get more glory?

I don't think it is for lack of trying. The guys at Willow Run were looking for a B-24 15-20 years ago and any one of them would have sold his firstborn into slavery to get a restorable one. It was the main acquisition/restoration goal of the Yankee Air Force at that time, since that was what they built there. I felt, and still feel, that if it could have been done, they would have done it. I think they even seriously contemplated converting a PB4Y. Sadly, they were way too late to get one of the Indian AF ones which make up the core of intact Libs today. The type did not have the kind of postwar life that the B-17 did, either with the USAF or civil operators, so there is just not the pool of airframes out there.

August

Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:59 pm

Looks to me like you're close enough now. You might as well strip and polish the rest of the aircraft when you're done!

retroaviation wrote: