B-17 Flying Fortress/44-83735 ~ the Duxford resto thread

[ZRX61]

so actually the fin is period correct and as we've already been shown,

That doesn't explain why there are 3 shades on the nose/cockpit area of the fuselage. Thats down to their painting method.

[The Inspector]

Question, are we dealing with a 65 year old weapon of war or a contender for the Riddler Award @ the Detroit Auto Show? Buy a ticket, hop a plane and go do it to your standard.

[peter]

Getting tired of this .. at the end of the day is she riddled with corrosion sitting on flat tires covered in dirt and bird goo?? NO she was loving ly restored and cared for to ensure she will be around long after the rest of us have withered away.
Come on guys lets raise a glass to the teams efforts..!!

[APG85]

If you don't paint a large aircraft with the same batch/mix of paint in one day at the exact same conditions i.e. humidity, temperature, etc., the color will vary slightly. The same thing will happen if you paint sections of a room in your home on different days under different conditions. I think it makes little difference on this beautiful restoration and once the plane is complete, I'm sure nobody will notice. I stand in awe of the magnificent job they are doing and I can't wait to see the finished product. I hear they are going to name her The New Jersey Belle

[ktst97]

Question, are we dealing with a 65 year old weapon of war or a contender for the Riddler Award @ the Detroit Auto Show? Buy a ticket, hop a plane and go do it to your standard.

I do not have a dog in this fight, but I certainly agree with The Inspector. It is obvious that some who do not have aircraft XYZ get their kicks by criticizing the work of those who do have aircraft XYZ. We occasionally lose WIXers who have valuable information to share but choose to bail out due to the BS which I described in the previous sentence about aircraft XYZ. We have lost Jack Cook and others because a few chose needlessly to be a PITA on this board.

[bombadier29]

Question, are we dealing with a 65 year old weapon of war or a contender for the Riddler Award @ the Detroit Auto Show? Buy a ticket, hop a plane and go do it to your standard.

Oh come on Bill, surely you remember your two quotes from page 17 of this thread! Im guessing your view on matters has tempered during the course of this tale. Or did you fly to Duxford and do some sheet metal work?

I hope the person who did that tank filler cutout in the wing skin didn't show it to their boss and ask for a raise! that defines the term 'hack job'

Having worked on or inspected tin work for 45 years,I understand that. It's the hand can opener approach taken to create that hole in the skin and at least three rivets with insufficient or no edge margin, the fact the part is round (and obviously could serve as a template) but the opening is far from that. Guess someone left his 'pride of work' sitting on the dresser that morning, that picture defines HACK JOB. And if it was presented to me as an Inspector for buy off, I'd write it up as 'unacceptable ' and reject it.

[The Inspector]

And, those were in response to work done either 40+ or 65+ years ago which would take far too long and far too many Pounds Sterling to completely redo, and I wasn't dogging anyone @ IWM. As far as the paint, leave it! like I said they aren't building it to win a Riddler Award, the repairs/mods and the paint are now all part of the whole and now tell the story of an anonymous bomber, which represents all the anonymous bombers rushed to completion, to help try and turn the tide of a terrible conflict. And looking at that bare canvas, you can use your own imagination about whether Arthur Kennedy, or Dana Andrews, or Billy Zane were better Bomardiers.
I suggested to the folks @ Hill's Museum that a very, very low volume (so you'd have to listen and not disturb folks 15 feet away) recording of prestart check list litany worked by a push button near the nose, or on the half hour automatically (so it didn't run endlessly and drive the staff nuts) and coming from speakers inside 'Short Bier' might evoque the ghosts of those who served

[K5DH]

Not intending to hijack this thread, but look in the background of this photo... Duxford has a Pucara! What's the scoop on it? War booty from the Falkland Islands incident, I would suspect. I've always thought that was an interesting aircraft. I'd love to see it fully restored and on display!

[D/C/W]

Duxford Wednesday June 20th:

The wing root panel mentioned earlier was an original part that needed reshaping and patching. We see here a skilled artisan hard at work on the re-attachment. I bet there's a story behind that T-shirt...



Horizontal stabilizers are now re-fitted. The harsh lighting is making things difficult for photographers.

[ZRX61]

Question, are we dealing with a 65 year old weapon of war or a contender for the Riddler Award @ the Detroit Auto Show? Buy a ticket, hop a plane and go do it to your standard.

I do not have a dog in this fight, but I certainly agree with The Inspector. It is obvious that some who do not have aircraft XYZ get their kicks by criticizing the work of those who do have aircraft XYZ. We occasionally lose WIXers who have valuable information to share but choose to bail out due to the BS which I described in the previous sentence about aircraft XYZ. We have lost Jack Cook and others because a few chose needlessly to be a PITA on this board.

I've painted multiple aircraft, cars & motorcycles, what's your tally? When I mentioned earlier they were doing it backasswards & were causing shade lines in the finish I was told I was imagining it. Now they have finished & parts of it look like a patchwork quilt.
Apparently someone at Dx was paying attention tho, because after I mentioned they were painting one part in the wrong order they subsequently did it in the correct order on the other side.
If someone had asked early on "Whats the correct order to paint this thing?" I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who could have told them. That would have prevented the shade lines AND the over-spray.

[The Inspector]

For a group of volunteers working on their own donated time I say they did an OK job, and I'm sure they all really appreciate seeing your evaluation of their donated time and efforts, no wonder it's difficult for restorers to attract volunteers, I'd say when it's your money and your project you can do it any way you want.
I'll admit to taking a crack or two at certain aspects of the airplane, but it was for the most part on existing 60+ year old things not initially done properly, and to point out potential items another restorer might keep an eye peeled for and fix if they are so inclined. I do not believe I've criticized any of the work done by these dedicated volunteer folks, they all seem to have busted their butts to make things right as much as they could. In five years the sun will bleach the paint out a bit and no one will notice or really give a darn, I'd say 'Good on ya! well done!'

'stop poking the dog, you'll just get him riled up' advise from my long dead granny-

[Dobbins]

Let's not forget that she is residing in what amounts to a giant greenhouse so the sunlight will take its toll. On another note, why is the ball turret a completely different shade of grey to the undersides? I don't recall the ball turret being touched at all in this restoration but it looks a bit, well, wrong.

[ZRX61]

For a group of volunteers working on their own donated time I say they did an OK job, and I'm sure they all really appreciate seeing your evaluation of their donated time and efforts, no wonder it's difficult for restorers to attract volunteers, I'd say when it's your money and your project you can do it any way you want.

I volunteered at Dx for 2 or 3 years. I know how things are there with museum volunteers altho I was involved in a private deal there not the museum itself.
They don't have any problem attracting volunteers for the museum stuff, they have a problem with the amount of BS people have to deal with after they volunteer. I knew quite a few who volunteered to work on the museum collection & never got to set foot in a hangar before they walked away disillusioned with the BS.

[bomberflight]

Time to explain the thinking behind the chosen paint scheme ......

The final decision on the paint scheme for the B-17G in the American Air Museum at Duxford evolved from many hours of research and many meetings.
It was vital to achieve a result that will tell the human story of conflict and explain the importance of the 8th Air Force contribution to winning victory
in the European theater in WW2 to future generations

44-83735 has been painted to represent a B-17 that originally left the factory in natural metal finish ...... but was painted in the UK prior to entry into combat flying.

Roger Freeman's letter to the Imperial War Museum back in the1980's refers to two B-17G-95-DL's that he identified that went through this process.
One of these was in fact "Mary Alice" ~ the previous scheme worn by this aircraft.

The reasons cited for Bomb Groups doing this in WW2 was these were some of the first aircraft to arrive in England in a natural metal finish and it was considered
necessary to stop them standing out against all the other Olive Drab B-17's that were then in service.

Given it was war-time ~ the aircraft would have been painted using whatever paint was available from stores on the airfield.
Olive Drab mixed with anything else that was around to make up the volume needed.

I like to think the process at the time would be something like the movie "Operation Petticoat". Only we didn't mix red lead and white lead paint that resulted in a pink submarine.

The USAAF would have used whatever ground personnel were available ( certainly not specialist painters ) and it's also likely the task would have been done outside.
They would have done minimal masking ( not the 4 weeks we spent on the fuselage alone ) because the overriding priority was to get it painted and get the B-17 into combat ~ flying missions.

Another consideration with painting was to reflect that many large sub-sections of the aircraft are interchangeable. If they became damaged ~ replacement parts could be sourced from from another aircraft.

By painting the aircraft in this manner ~ it represents not only the bravery of a single crew / Squadron / Bomb group ~ it can be the "vehicle" to tell a multitude of different stories over time.
And this should include the unsung ground staff on airfields or at repair depots and even the "rosie the riveters" in the factories.

I admit when I first heard about the final choice I was a little phased ..... what no unit markings nor nose art ?

But over a few days I came to realize just how right this decision will be for education of future generations.

When it comes to young volunteer American airmen paying the ultimate sacrifice ~ they should be treated with equal respect



The memorial walk up to the entrance of the American Air Museum represents the loss of 6,346 aircraft from the Mighty 8th flying from England in WW2.

In many ways ~ it would be easy to pick one and leave it at that ~ but the hard choice ( and I now firmly believe ~ the right choice ) is to ask visitors
to stop and think for a moment about all of them. Every one of the glass panels reflects the combat losses for specific Bomb Groups.



As the number of surviving WW2 veterans steadily diminishes "735" has an increasingly important job to do .....

It has to represent the blood ~ sweat ~ sacrifice and tears of all of the airmen and women that served in England in WW2.



When the last pieces are refitted and the B-17 is once again complete ~ I hope you will agree that this Flying Fortress will be ready to meet the assigned mission.

[K5DH]

this Flying Fortress will be ready to meet the assigned mission.

+1