Gary ~ What's The Plan For Diamond Lil ? 2006 and Beyond!

[retroaviation]

Okay, since the request lines were open, the following propeller removal update was requested by Alan Brooks of Burleson, TX. Thanks for listening to us today, Alan, and tell us who rocks your work day..........oooops. Wrong forum.

Anyway, here's what it takes to remove a B-24 propeller......

The first step is to brace one of the blades with a padded stand of some sort to keep it from rotating while loosening everything up. I typically just use a ladder with a rag stuffed between it and the propeller blade. When using a ladder, however, it is important to put the blade on the edge of the ladder (where it has the most support) and also to put the unused portion of the ladder behind the prop arc, so that it won't get in your way while you're working.........





Now that the prop is braced up, you can start the removal process. The first step here is to take the locking ring off of the prop dome cap. Then you use a wrench to remove the cap. And finally, screw the dome handle on in the place of the cap. Pretty simple stuff here. Typically, there will be a buttload of oil dumping out of these stinkin' Hamilton Standard propellers (I personally prefer working with the Aeroproducts props), but since I have actually already disassembled this once, the oil has all been drained onto a previous pair of pants from the other day .........









The next step is to cut the safety wire from the dome lock screw and remove it.......



Then you slide the dome wrench on over the dome and engage it to the lugs......



The next part is something any trained monkey can do.....hit something with a hammer. It typically takes a few raps with at least a two pound sledge hammer to get the dome nut to break loose. Then it just screws right off by hand. (Sorry for the soft pictures, I just can't seem to train Mark how to use the camera)..........





When sliding the dome off, you must be careful not to let it drop onto the distributor shaft that's inside the propeller. These cute little domes on this B-24 are only about 40-50 pounds each (depending on how much oil is in them), so they're not too bad to handle. On the real propellers, like on the B-29, you better either have eaten your Wheaties in the morning or have someone to help you slide the dome off, as they weigh in the neighborhood of 80 pounds each. ...........







Now, most of these ol' Ham Standards have a shim or two between the dome and the prop hub. It is important to insure that whatever shims are there, stay with the prop/dome combination. The prop shop will set the backlash in the gears with these shims and not keeping the shims with the prop assembly will only cause for more work for you later. Typically, I never take the shims off of the prop hub, except for cleaning..........



Okay, the next item to be removed is the lock pin for the distributor shaft and the prop holder-on-er-nut thingy. It's basically a single pin, attached to a spring steel ring, that goes into a groove on the distributor shaft and the retaining nut. It's imparative to remove this locking pin before trying to take the distributor shaft out. I cannot tell you how many times I've come across distributor shafts with teeth knocked out of them from people trying to loosen them before the pin was removed............







Now that the locking pin is out, you just put the silly lookin', all in one prop tool on the hex portion of the distributor shaft and give it a good whack with the hammer......just remember though, "righty tighty, lefty loosie."...............



Once it's broken loose, it should just spin out by hand........



When the distributor shaft is removed, you might as well go ahead and remove the gasket that is between it and the crankshaft. There really is no "right time" to do this, but you don't want to forget it and stack two of them on top of each other when reinstalling the prop (although it's not uncommon to see that)..........





Okay then, the final item to be loosened is the retaining nut. You just get the wrench and slide it into place.......



Then you get a long bar, put a fat boy on the end, grab your hammer, and then give the bar a few whacks to loosen the nut. It's going to be pretty tight, so whoever is on the end of the bar should be aware that if he's not paying attention, he'll end up on his rear when the nut breaks loose. The B-24 manual calls for a 180 pound man on the end of a three foot bar for the torque. I could never remember the exact torque value of that, but it's pretty tight. ..........



When you've broken the nut loose, you just keep on backing it off. You can start seeing the prop creeping forward, away from the engine, as the nut loosens.........






And finally, you work on the forklift for twenty minutes before you can get it running, then pray the brakes work while taking the prop off.........





So there you have it. Do this three more times and you've removed all of the props from a B-24. Nuthin' to it.

Gary

[Connery]

Very interesting Gary, thanks for the step by step on the procedure.

[Malo83]

Wow Gary, watching all these pics on the Prop brought back a lot of memories, when I was in the NAVY as an Aviation Machinist Mate I use to work on P-3 Orions and E-2C Hawkeyes and changing out Props was one of our duties. Bye the way I Salute you for the outstanding job your doing on Lil you truly have gifted hands
John

[Former Member]

Thanks for taking the time to share the pics Gary. Looking at them just makes me want to go out and get my hands greasy!

John

[bomberflight]

Gary, a master-class lesson in how it's done. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and the very instructive pictures !

Can I ask a ( dumb layman's ) question ? Does removing the props create any issues with the airplane centre of gravity ?

I've noticed that when loading / unloading passengers on Witchcraft, the Collings Foundation always have a support strut underneath the rear fuselage. My guess is that this is because they have a powered turret hanging off the rear end and no bomb load forward of the main gear to compensate ......

[retroaviation]

Actually, all B-24's have that CG issue while on the ground. If only Consolidated would've put that main landing gear about 2 inches further aft..........

Anyway, we have the same delimma with the airplane wanting to sit on it's tail that the Collings Foundation does. Unfortunately for us though, it's usually because we have so much garage sale......I mean, PX stuff, in there that the airplane tends to look like it's trying to "pop a wheelie." I've actually had to get in the airplane and crank the engines up on a couple of occasions, in order to get the nose strut to collapse enough for us to move it around with the tug (yes, we shut the engines down before tugging it).

Removing the props does have some effect on how it sits, but while the airplane is just parked here, it's not much. Now, if I were to be moving it around with the tug, that would be a whole different issue. I'd probably put a fair amount of weight in the nose of the airplane to keep it from doing anything silly.

Interestingly though, the CG issue is a much bigger deal while on the ground than in the air. Obviously, we have to monitor our weight and balance situation each time we fly, but just because it looks "tail heavy" while on the ramp, doesn't necessarily mean that it's that way for flight. If they'd have only put a tailwheel on the airplane rather than that training wheel up front......

Gary

[Stratofortressflyer]

Gary,

Whats the situation with the bomb racks. I think you mentioned you had the racks and were going to put fake doors on the inside, but what about the walk way down the middle? and are you going to take out ribs and just have the skin of the airplane or are you going to put in the big girder that splits the bomb bay into two sections? Speaking of CG issues, if you put a couple of fake 500-pounders in the racks will that fix some of the CG problems?

Marc

[retroaviation]

Ahh, the questions....where do I start?

Let's see...the situation with the bomb racks is that I'm working on obtaining some as we speak. Just today we made great forward progress with a deal I hope to get finished up soon.

We will be putting a walkway down the center of the bomb racks like it had originally (or as close as I can duplicate anyway).

I will not be taking any ribs out of the belly of the airplane. Simply no time left for that. Nor is there time to install the bomb bay doors that we may have just obtained as well..........did I just say that out loud? Just don't tell anyone, okay?

We already have some replica 250 pounders from Bombs Away, LLC., which are the same as what we have in the aft bomb bay of FIFI now (500 pounders in the front). They only weigh 35 pounds each and are awesome looking bombs. There is simply no need to carry around unnecessary weight, particularly in the bomb bay area, which is near the CG of the aircraft anyway. I am quite aware of the B-24's CG issues and we consider that as we install each item in this reconfiguration.

Thanks for the questions. I hope my answers are helpful.

Gary

[RickH]

Gary, you could get the bomb makers to install an access door in their bombs. You could stack T shirts in there and label the bombs according to T shirt size. Think how how many boxes you could get rid of !

[peter]

Hello Gary.
Do you know if there are any spare distributors for the ham standard props? All four of our props are missing them and we currently only need one.

[Warbird Kid]

Hi to all! First time messaging, and especially to you retro-. Just to pop in and say, Unbelieveable job your doing. Me and my dad are both following this very awsome transformation. My grandfather, his father, was a top turret gunner in (B-24 -0185, "Queen of Hearts" 90th bomb group/5th airforce). I was wondering, and sorry if it was proabably already mentioned but, Should there be a top turret gunner on a B-24A? If yes are you going to install one?

[retroaviation]

peter, you could check with any of the propeller overhaul facilities (that mess with Warbird props) to check on spare distributor shafts. We primarily use San Antonio Propeller and Byam Propeller. Of course, there are many others as well.

Warbird Kid, thank you for your post and the kind words. I'm glad to be of some entertainment to you and your dad. No, the B-24A never had any turrets at all. The top gunner (which was just behind the radio operator's compartment and just forward of the waist gunners). He actually stuck his head out of a hole in the top of the airplane, while standing on a step stool.

We won't be opening up this gun position this year. I am simply out of time and would have to reroute the control cables, since they put them right across this top gunner's position when they converted this airplane to it's transport configuration.

Here is a picture of one of our original drawings. Note how the wind deflector only goes half-way up his head.....not much of a deflector, huh? ...........


Gary

[Beachy]

Well? Did you do any work this afternoon, Gary? Anything you can post?

[K5DH]

it's usually because we have so much garage sale......I mean, PX stuff, in there that the airplane tends to look like it's trying to "pop a wheelie."

Chuckie has plywood platforms built into the rear half of the bomb bay, and we load our PX stuff, coolers, duffle bags, etc, onto those wooden platforms and lash everything down with bungee cords. Since our bomb bay doors are operational, it's easy to just hand the containers up from the ground to someone in the bomb bay. You might be able to pull off something like that with the B-24A, although you'd have to load out and load in through the passenger doorway (which you will anyway, come to think of it).

Great series on the prop removal, by the way!

Cheers!

[retroaviation]

Well? Did you do any work this afternoon, Gary? Anything you can post?

Nope. I had to rent a backhoe and a front-end loader to clean off my desk, and I've got to have them back this afternoon.

Before.........



After..........



I give it a week before it looks the same as the "before" picture again.

Gary