"Silverplate" B-29 Tail Section Identified? w/ pics

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

I have decided to start a new thread based on information on the mis-identification of a B-29 Super Fortress tail section that I currently own. The tail was previously misidentified by me as B-29 42-65377 in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37628
It is not B-29 42-65377. That aircraft crashed on August 4th 1945. Through great help from fellow WIXers (thank you so much! I hope I put all of the information together correctly) I am now proposing that it may be one of three B-29 Super Fortress' that were produced under "Silverplate" program for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I decided to start a new thread of conclusive and speculative information to foster further research on this tail section.

The tail section has an aluminum data plate attached to with screws on the starboard side frame just forward of the pressure hatch to the gunners compartment.

The plate is marked:
AIRPLANE MOD. B-29
DWG. NUMBER OR PART NUMBER 3-14335-14
CONT NO. W33-038-AC-117
SER. NO. 377

Facts and assumptions (compiled from the great help of fellow WIXers):
1. FACT: This B-29 (tail) was converted to a TB-29 at some point and painted, at least partially, black after being converted to a TB-29.
2. FACT: This TB-29 (tail) was recovered from China Lake Naval Weapons Station.
3. FACT: This tail was made by Hudson as a subcontract for Glenn L. Martin. This is based off of the drawing number 3-14335 (Body Installation – Tail) referenced in the B-29 Blueprint Handbook, Department of Education and Training, Glenn L. Martin Company Revised Edition July 1944.
4. FACT: Martin Contract W33-038-AC-117. This contract was assigned AAF Serial Numbers B-29-5-MO 42-65202 through B-29-35-MO 42-65401, referenced in Technical Order No. 00-25-30. Cost per aircraft $928,866. Total production of B-29s by Martin 536 (Blocks 1 through 60). UNKNOWN: Does contract W-33-038-AC-117 included all blocks of production (1 through 60)?
4. ASSUMPTION: The S/N stamped on the data plate is 377, which I believed was for B-29 42-65377 (which was built under Block 30). FACT: B-29 42-65377 crashed August 4th 1945. The tail is not from that aircraft. The number 377 could be a Martin C/N (Craft Number). FACT: C/N 3377 was assigned to B-29-1-MO 42-6243. B-29-1-MO 42-6243 crashed on October 8th 1944 with a bail-out after Nagasaki due to being out of gas. The tail is not from that aircraft. ASSUMPTION: Could 377 be a production serial number assigned by Hudson? Hudson may not have known the serial numbers assigned by the AAF to each production block. They produced the tail sections for Martin under this specific contract and the serial number 377 may be specific only to Hudson for the production and tracking of the tail only. The tails were delivered to Martin in Omaha and fitted to each B-29, not in a specific order, but rather as they were delivered. Martin MAY have documented the Serial Number in production documentation. IF tails were produced under this logic starting with a #1 Serial Number assigned by Hudson (from the very start of the production contract), Serial Number 377 would have been produced and or delivered around the B-29-45-MO Block of production: 44-86277 through 44-86315.
5. FACT: TB-29s were reconfigured as trainers by the Oklahoma City Materiel Area at Tinker Air Force Base in April 1950. Assumption: This tail was reconfigured at this facility during this time period.

Known Martin B-29 aircraft at China Lake that fit the above criteria:
B-29-25-MO 42-65281 “Miss America”. Converted to TB-29. – Currently at the Travis Air Museum.
B-29-35-MO 44-27298 “Full House” Converted to TB-29. – Unknown disposition.
B-29-35-MO 44-27304 “Up An’ Atom” Converted to TB-29. – Unknown disposition.
B-29-45-MO 44-86291 “Necessary Evil” Converted to TB-29. – Unknown disposition.
B-29-50-MO 44-86318 Not converted to a TB-29. Red 91 painted on black tail. Photo’s confirmed on China Lake Alumni website – Unknown disposition.

Three of the aircraft, 44-27298, 44-27304 and 44-86291 were “Siverplate” B-29s that were assigned to the 509th Composite Group for the attacks on Japan. The block of aircraft were redesignated BLOCK 36 batch of aircraft and were assigned serial numbers 44-27296 through 44-27304…..”Bockscar” being 44-27297. B-29-45-MO 44-86291 was the sister ship to the“Enola Gay” B-29-45-MO 44-86292.

So….an easy way to prove this theory would be to crawl into the tail of “Bockscar” at the NMUSAF and “Enola Gay” at the Smithsonian and see what that data plate says.

Your thoughts? Fire Away - Van

10tweaker · **Joined:** Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:19 pm **Posts:** 48

Van,
This is a really interesting detective mission here. I have to agree with the posts regarding manufacture as far as how components get swapped around and the component S/N may not correlate to the aircraft S/N. I spent a few years building aircraft for the military and we would have "ship sets" of components which were intended for a particular aircraft but those parts would/could be replaced/robbed etc based on a variety of reasons. I think one of the guys mentioned how they would rob planes further back in the production line for parts--we did the same thing. This is only at the factory too--that doesn't even take into account what happened during the aircraft's service life. At the factory, if we had a plane "at the door" (i.e. ready to roll out to the flight line for test/acceptance flights) and it had something break during final assembly/functional checks, an order would be generated (sometimes officially with paperwork--sometimes simply a verbal order to get the part "RFN") to rob the needed part from a plane further back--even if it was already installed. In the military, if we had a "hanger queen" it would sometimes be stripped to the point of almost being nothing more than a paperweight.

Anyway, this is fascinating and educational. Good luck with the research and restoration.

Regards,
Jim

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

Thanks Jim. I'm trying. Figured I'd put a full list of the known facts and then maybe the other stuff can be filled in. Start with the science and work your way forward or backward.

If the tail does turn out to be from one of the Silverplate B-29s I'm not so sure restoration will be in her future. She is a time capsule with all of the flaking paint, scars and bumps. Like the C-47A nose that I have - originally I was going to restore her, now with all of the history that I know about it (the C-47A), I plan to only paint the exterior (she currently has a 1980s post war paint scheme) back to her time with the 306th Troop Carrier Squadron and replace the gauges and missing components on the inside vice restore. "Preserve" is pretty popular right now, and I'm down with that!

Even if she Isn't one of the Silverplate B-29s, I still have to figure out who she was and I still have a whole other TB-29 tail that I haven't even started looking into yet. What I do know is what aircraft were at China Lake, so I'm starting there. Three match the criteria and all three where from the Silverplate program. There were several other TB-29s at China lake, but none fit the details. The other tail that I have may be one of the other TB-29s at China Lake, but not the black one in the pictures. The black tail matches all of the criteria of the "Silverplate" B-29s: manufacture, time of production, etc.

Keep the comments coming! Until I can find out the information on the data plate on Enola Gay and Bockscar, I don't think I'll be certain....and even then, maybe not certain!

Django · **Posted:** Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:01 pm

That would be pretty amazing if it turns out to be true!

L. Thompson · **Posted:** Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:17 pm

I really hope it ends up being "NECESSARY EVIL" as this was the first B-29 my dad flew in after being assigned to Roswell's 509th Composite Group in May 1947. He flew in 44-86291 first on May 22, 1947 and then again on 28 & 30 May; June 3,4,7, & 12; July 4,28, & 29; Aug. 1st & 25th., and Sept 1, 1947.

Below is the only photo he had. He was a CFC Gunner, and in this photo has back turned in the dark overalls and ball cap.

wendovertom · **Posted:** Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:56 am

Humm - I wish the rest of it was still with the tail. . . . but since it is not I think it would be cool if it belonged to "Up an Atom". I had the great pleasure of meeting Mr and Mrs Marquardt at the 509th CG reunion in Wendover a few years ago. His family all lives in Utah and are a very nice group of people. George and his wife also put on the 1990 reunion in Wendover when the 509th monument was erected at the highway visitors center. It would be cool for them to know that a piece of his plane was still around.

Tom P.

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

Oh boy....a little more research and this has gotten even more frustrating!!!! New findings. With the help of the curator of the NMUSAF, they were kind enough to locate and photograph the Hudson data plate in the rear of "Bockscar". "Bockscar" was built as B-29-36-MO 44-27297.....linearly the 342nd B-29 built by Glenn L. Martin (this is based off of the start of production: B-29 #1 and counting through the production to #536, the last aircraft built by Glenn L. Martin). Now with that being said, B-29-36-MO 44-27297 "Bockscar" has a Hudson produced tail with the Serial Number "239"!!!! See below photo's:

The Glen L. Martin produced "black" tail (1 of 2) in my possession has the Hudson nomenclature plate with the Serial Number "377". There were only five aircraft that came from China Lake that it "could be"
B-29-25-MO 42-65281 “Miss America”. Converted to TB-29. – Currently at the Travis Air Museum.
B-29-35-MO 44-27298 “Full House” Converted to TB-29. – Unknown disposition.
B-29-35-MO 44-27304 “Up An’ Atom” Converted to TB-29. – Unknown disposition.
B-29-45-MO 44-86291 “Necessary Evil” Converted to TB-29. – Unknown disposition.
B-29-50-MO 44-86318 Not converted to a TB-29. Red 91 painted on black tail. Photo’s confirmed on China Lake Alumni website – Unknown disposition.

What does this mean, "Bockscar" having a Hudson produced tail with the Serial Number 239 and being the 342nd aircraft produced....could the Hudson produced tails have been delivered in bulk and added to any aircraft randomly as they were drawn from the storage area? Based on the new findings, absolutely. The "377" aircraft built by Martin was B-29-45-MO 44-86315 which is very close to a known China Lake aircraft of 44-86318....but based on the "Bockscar" data plate, more data is now needed.

So.....I need more data. I'll contact the guys at Travis to see what their data plate says and I'm working on getting the information from Enola Gay. Stay tuned!!!

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:18 am

That serial number does seem to suggest that the aft compartment was picked out of a storage area at random and fed into the assembly line, doesn't it? I'll do some further research into methods used at Omaha that might shed light on this conundrum. I'd certainly do a field trip to Tinker if you need.

Scott

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

Scott,
If you wouldn't mind going to Tinker and taking a few pictures of the data plate and what it says that would be awesome. I'll take all of the Martin B-29 data as I can get at this point. I'm pretty certain my black B-29 tail can be only one of the four known Martin B-29s that ended up at China Lake. I also need some Boeing data too as I believe my silver tail is B-29 44-70140, but I'll work on that one in parallel. Thanks - Van

peter · **Posted:** Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:35 am

Could the black painted one be from 44-61748?

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.chinalakealumni.org/IMAGES/1968/42-65281%2520B-29%2520ddSEP68%2520CLK%2520W-Mutza.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.chinalakealumni.org/1968B.htm&usg=__jiDo687GpI4TtoxPL41q6YvxcAg=&h=240&w=350&sz=42&hl=en&start=9&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=VJ8YPAQGE1Ba9M:&tbnh=82&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Db29%2Bbomber%2Bchina%2Blake%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1W1PCTC_en%26tbs%3Disch:1

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

Yes, that is one of the pictures from the China Lake Alumni website. The black tail in that picture is not 44-61748, it is 44-86318. There are actually 5 pictures of 44-86318 on the China Lake website, a great one of the tail (but not the bottom of the gunner compartment), two views from far away showing the top of the tail, and two of the front of the aircraft. None show the modification of a tail with tow target chutes, but the pictures also do not show the long "tubes" the go along the sides of the fuselage that control the two target chutes on the tail. B-29 44-61748 had a black tail, with a red tip, small white box and red "91" on the tail.

Incidentally, the bare metal B-29 in the foreground of that picture, Martin B-29 42-65281 "Miss America '62", currently at the Travis Air Museum.

10tweaker · **Joined:** Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:19 pm **Posts:** 48

Not trying to muddy the waters, but one thing I would do is get the aircraft history cards to see if any of the known China Lake birds where ever involved in mishaps (the cards sometimes have that information--sometimes not) and required a rebuild of the tail. The reason I mention that is because you might be able to track down which tail unit went to which airframe in the production line, but that may not be relevant if one of the CL birds ever had it's tail rebuilt. Theoretically, an untraceable tail could have been salvaged and installed on one of the CL birds at some point prior to being sent to the desert. Not sure how it could be traced unless you have the actual maintenance logs...and then, only if the mechanics recorded it correctly.

Sorry, just a thought...

Jim

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

The linear scientific research is being applied directly to the known TB-29s that ended up at China Lake with the modified tails that have the two target chutes mounted under the gunner position. There were only 8 or so TB-29s that were at China Lake, 5 Martin built and 3 Boeing (I'm typing this from memory, so I could be off 1 or 2). True, as discussed previously the tail COULD have come from another aircraft at some point (unlikely), but it DEFINITELY ended up at China Lake on one of the known TB-29 aircraft, so that is what I have to work with.

The same could be said about "Bockscar" having her tail replaced at some point based on the research I've done, the tail serial number being so far off of her production number, but I don't think anyone wants to start that argument (and I'm fairly certain that is not the case).

What I need is further data from the other Martin B-29s that still exist to see what their Hudson nomenclature plates say.

I plan on pulling the aircraft production cards at the Smithsonian to see if they yield any clues on the known S/Ns of TB-29s from China Lake.

Who is handling FIFI these days. Even though she was not built by Martin, I'd be curious to know if she has a nomenclature plate or "UNIT" number stamped in her tail. Anyone want to look? I'll tell you where to look on non-Martin/Hudson tails.

Keep it coming....this is good stuff.

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2635

Just an observation between the style of your I.D. plate and Bockscars. Have no idea if it makes any difference in your research?

Yours is painted (from the factory or after a mod.?), Bockscars isn't.

All of the standard wording on your ID plate looks to be indented, like a stamp/punch was used. Bockscars looks like the standard wording is silk screened or printed on.

Regards,

RareBear · **Posted:** Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:35 am

How prevalent was the use of Phillips-head screws for attaching data plates? Most of the ones I've seen were attached with rivets. The one in Bockscar looks almost like a reproduction. The one from Van's tail section appears to be a much older, embossed plate.

Walt

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