Just when you've seen it all

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7866

An FW 190 with invasion stripes :roll:

This 190 seems to be in British hands. Or maybe French.

Also this 109 looks to have a better set of landing gear than the original setup. Wonder how well this worked out.

Of course this looks better.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7866

And of course the ever rare Japanese 109

Randy Wilson · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:39 pm

At first glance it looks like it might be a test for the gear used on the 209. I have nothing to back that up at this moment, just a thought.

Randy

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7866

me 209 indeed some similarities. Seems to have some Dora in the nose doesn't it?

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:53 pm

The Fw 190 is in French colours (rudder stripes makes it French, the British used fin flashes in W.W.II, expect for the AASF in 1939-40).

The French actually built Fw 190s post war as the NC 900, and a 'Fw 190' at the Musee de l'Air near Paris is actually an example of one of these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf ... #Operators

Never seen the Messerschmitt 109 with the inward retracting undercarriage before - fascinating, thanks! I'd agree with Randy's guess as to it's raison d'etre.

Regards,

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:00 pm

The Japanese Bf-109 E- 4 (?) was code named 'Mike' by the Allies, it was used to do some 'fly off' evaluations for the IJAF and made the trip to Nippon via submarine along with a couple of spare DB-601's. The IJAF found no big advancements in the airframe but signed a deal to license build the 601/605 for the Ki-61 Hein and others-They also had a couple of FW-190's code named 'Fred'. And I'll bet the 190 with teh stripes was captured intact and marked distinctly so people wouldn't shoot at it, it probably always flew with an escort just to keep itchy fingered 2 looies from swooping down and blasting it. One U.S. outfit had a 190 that they painted loud red with BIG stars and bars in about 23 positions.

C VEICH · **Joined:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm **Posts:** 1473

The 109 with the inward retracting gear reminds me of the D-3802 a bit.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7866

Here's an interesting question for ya, if the Luftwaffe painted several 109's and 190's with invasion stripes and tricked some allied aircraft into thinking they were indeed allied aircraft, shooting several down, would these Luftwaffe pilots be tried as war criminals if caught? I say the answer is "yes"

phil65 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:54 pm

Only if they painted over the Balkenkreuz.

Phil

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:26 pm

And the D Day stripes were actually developed for use on the Typhoon so ground troops wouldn't mistake it's plan view for a 190 which it sort of resembles from below or above, and since the stripes were already in use---why not?

Jarink1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:21 pm **Posts:** 117

I agree with Phil. There's nothing I could see wrong with anyone mimicking some temporary markings used only for a specific operation.

Heck, they could have even flown captured a/c on actual combat ops and that would not be a violation of the Geneva Convention as long as they carried Luftwaffe markings. Obviously, captured aircraft were pretty rare, but it was quite common for the ground armies on both sides to use captured tanks, artillery, etc. With proper markings, of course.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7866

Jarink1 wrote:

as long as they carried Luftwaffe markings.

I'll agree with that statement too.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:03 pm

Mark Allen M wrote:

Jarink1 wrote:

as long as they carried Luftwaffe markings.

I'll agree with that statement too.

Check into Kg 200 and see how many operational allied aircraft they had-

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:42 pm

Jarink1 wrote:

Heck, they could have even flown captured a/c on actual combat ops and that would not be a violation of the Geneva Convention as long as they carried Luftwaffe markings. Obviously, captured aircraft were pretty rare, but it was quite common for the ground armies on both sides to use captured tanks, artillery, etc. With proper markings, of course.

Or Fascist Italian markings...

Quote:

On 12 June 1943, a P-38G, while flying a special mission between Gibraltar and Malta, landed on the airfield of Capoterra (Cagliari), in Sardinia, from navigation error due to a compass failure. Regia Aeronautica chief test pilot colonnello Lieutenant Colonel Angelo Tondi flew the aircraft to Guidonia airfield where the P-38G was evaluated. On 11 August 1943, Tondi took off to intercept a formation of about 50 B-24s, returning from the bombing of Terni (Umbria). Tondi attacked a bomber that fell off the shore of Torvaianica, near Rome, while six airmen were parachuting. That was the first and last war mission for the plane, as the Italian petrol was too corrosive for the Lockheed tanks.[62] Other Lightnings were eventually acquired by Italy for postwar service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning

Stripes as aircraft type id, as opposed to general operational id go back further than the narrow black wide white stripes on Typhoons the Inspector mentions. The first Mustangs (and later ones) had a single white (or black) stripe on the inner wing and tailplane for the 'not a 109' id.

Regards,

gregv · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:35 am

Mark Allen M wrote:

Never seen this before, very interesting. Also note that the wing-mounted radiators have seemingly been moved (along with the oil cooler) into one large scoop under the fuselage. Landing gear sure looks Fw-190, although the wheels/tires are likely a bit smaller.

thanks for posting those pics.

greg v.

edit: a quick internet search reveals "SG+EK Messerschmitt Bf109F-1 V31 W.Nr.5642 W.Nr.5642 used for the Me309"

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