Answer this ME 262 question

[Shay]

Can anyone tell me what the Werk Nm. of the first ME 262 flown at Wright Field was?

Here's a hint. The swallow was assembled and flown before the end of May 1945 under the guidance of Messerschmitt engineer August Bringewald (later of F-105 Thunderchief fame)

Shay
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Semper Fortis

[Ztex]

111711???

Z

[Shay]

111711???

Z

Nope.

111711 was part of Operation Lusty and was brought to the US aboard the HMS Reaper. Incidently 111711 crashed not too far from my house

The ME 262 I'm asking about was, in a way, delivered to the US by the germans.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

[Edward Soye]

Shay,

Are you referring to the example the Messerschmitt test pilot Hans Fay defected in on March 31, 1945?

Afraid I don't know the werk number off hand, but trying to look up the ref. for it.

Ed

[Edward Soye]

Hmm.. it seems Fay defected in W.Nr. 111711.

The only 262 I'm aware of being in the US before it was the example found in U-234 when it surrendered on 17 May.

Afraid I've never heard mention of its Werk No.

[Shay]

I have to correct myself. 111711 was not part of operation Lusty. It was airlifted separate from the HMS Reaper group.

Yes Edward I am in fact referring to the ME 262 the was transported aboard U-234.

U-234 after the surrender pulled into Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Naval Base on May 19th. The Schwalbe was offloaded prior to the 23rd and shipped to Wright Field and listed as being reassembled and flown before the end of the month.

The Operation Lusty aircraft didn't arrive until later in July.

So I guess 111711 was the first ME 262 to fly a Wright Field. But It's this unknown 262 whose identity I want to discover.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

[Shay]

Ok this is what I've got:

I found this on the Werk Nummer Resource Center:

WerkNummer: 900229
Model: Me 262
Factory:
Date: 05/16/45
Unit:
Pilot:
Factory Code:
Unit Code:
Callsign:
Remarks: This aircraft was crated and enroute to Japan, along with Luftwaffe Generalleutnant Kessler aboard the German submarine U-234, when it surrendered at Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The fate of this aircraft is unknown.

Any thoughts as to where it went?

I still think this might not be the correct Nummer, plus the date is wrong

Shay
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Semper Fortis

[PhantomAce08]

What about this one?

[Shay]

That is werknummer 500491. Yellow "7" of Jagdgeschwader 7

Otherwise known as "Ginny H"

Assigned: U.S. Army Air Force Foreign Equipment number of FE-111

I believe now on display at NASM

Shay
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Semper Fortis

[PhantomAce08]

That is werknummer 500491. Yellow "7" of Jagdgeschwader 7

Otherwise known as "Ginny H"

Assigned: U.S. Army Air Force Foreign Equipment number of FE-111

I believe now on display at NASM

Ooops! Didn't look at the caption until after I posted!

[Ztex]

So I guess 111711 was the first ME 262 to fly a Wright Field

So I win! ... technically....sort of....

I thought it might be 111711 because it was surrendered by Frey and not captured by the Lusty crew...


The U-234 story is quite interesting. One story says there were two Me-262 jet fighters, ME-163 rocket-propelled fighter, Henschel HS-293 glider-bomb and extra Junkers jet engines. Plus a bunch of Uranium...that "may" have been used in the Little Boy bomb.

So what happened to the other airplanes?

Cool, I have never heard this story.

Thanks Shay.
Z

[Edward Soye]

Shay,

The Op. Lusty story is an interesting one, as is the U-234 incident.

Any particular reason you're trying to dig up info on the Japan bound bird(s) that ended up in the states?

An inkling to the larger project (if there is one) could be helpful in flushing out other useful information.

Cheers

Edward

[Shay]

Edward

Basically the reasoning is because this is a unknown ME 262. All of the Operation Lusty ME 262s and 111711 are accounted for. Where as the U-234 ME 262 isn't. I would like to find 2 things. It's werknummer for the purpose of maybe tracing it's operational history prior to U-234(if any). And also it's final disposition. If this aircraft no longer exists in whole it's very possible that portions of it still do. A lot parts and assemblies were swapped around from swallow to swallow and other nazi aircraft. Ala the DORA wing swap that took 60 years to fianlly correct. So it's a minor mystery to me and a story well worth uncovering and being told.

Another ME 262 mystery is this one from http://www.flyingknights.net



The story so far for this pictures says that it was taken at Atsugi airbase Japan just after the end of the war. If this true then there is another story to be told since to me recollection no ME 262 were supposed to have made it to Japan, only the plans.

anyone recognize the markings on the ME 262?

Shay
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Semper Fortis

[Ztex]

The story so far for this pictures says that it was taken at Atsugi airbase Japan just after the end of the war

This may be a later picture than 1945-46...because there is a T-33/F-80 tail in the picture.

There is a thread about this picture over at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/me-262-japan-3120.html

One guy says it is not in Japan but in "Washington DC....The 262 is FE-610, Ole Fruit Cake, originally WNr 110306"

[Shay]

[This may be a later picture than 1945-46...because there is a T-33/F-80 tail in the picture.

One guy says it is not in Japan but in "Washington DC....The 262 is FE-610, Ole Fruit Cake, originally WNr 110306"

I'm not arguing that this might have been taken in DC and not Japan.

But to referrence that it would have been later. There were P-80s in the Pacific at the end of the war so if this "was" taken in Japan it could have been after August when U.S. force started to arrive in Japan.

From Joe Baugher:

In the summer of 1945, approximately 30 P-80As were sent aboard an aircraft carrier to the Philippines in preparation for the final assault on Japan.

And not to mention that the Partial Ser. No. is consistant with the first P-80s produced in 1944.

Food for thought.

Do you have any other pictures of FE-610, Ole Fruit Cake, originally WNr 110306 to verify this?

Also just checking with "Luftwaffe Over Ohio" FE-610 is another ME 262 that has gone missing.

FE-610 Me-262B-la/U1 WNr 110306, Red "6", 10/NJG 11. Sent over on the Reaper, this aircraft was stripped of its radar gear, and subsequently took part in several aircraft displays. Supposedly this aircraft was declared surplus and went to Cornell University around 1950, but Calspan, Inc. , which took over Cornell's aeronautical department, has no record of the aircraft ever having been there. For the record, the authors are satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the Me-262B at Willow Grove NAS is not FE-610, but a two seat trainer the Navy took on charge in 1945 from the Reaper shipment.

Shay
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Semper Fortis