Hawaii Locator
Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:11 pm
The Hawaii locator is complete as I can make it for now. You can find it at...
http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Locator.html#USA_HI
I have a few questions which you may be able to help me with...
#1: Is there a F-100 and/or H-52 at the Dillingham Airport?
#2: Is there a DC-3 at the Bishop museum in Honolulu?
#3: Is there an A-4 in Mililani Town?
#4: Is there an AH-1 and/or H-23 on display at Wheeler?
#5: The "Pacific Aerospace Museum" is now closed. It was at the Honolulu International Airport, and apprently the collection included an A-4. What happened to the A-4? Is it display in the terminal?
Looking forward to your comments. Washington State is next.
Mike
http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Locator.html#USA_HI
I have a few questions which you may be able to help me with...
#1: Is there a F-100 and/or H-52 at the Dillingham Airport?
#2: Is there a DC-3 at the Bishop museum in Honolulu?
#3: Is there an A-4 in Mililani Town?
#4: Is there an AH-1 and/or H-23 on display at Wheeler?
#5: The "Pacific Aerospace Museum" is now closed. It was at the Honolulu International Airport, and apprently the collection included an A-4. What happened to the A-4? Is it display in the terminal?
Looking forward to your comments. Washington State is next.
Mike
Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:39 pm
Mike,
US Army Museum's (Fort DeRussy) Cobra is an AH-1S restored as an AH-1G
At Pearl Harbor near the USS Bowfin submarine is a Chance Vought Regulus I (big thing too)
21 22'06.30 N 157 56'19.72 W
When I was at Wheeler in 1998:
P-40B mockup that was used in Tora, Tora, Tora
Hiller OH-23G Raven
Bell OH-58A Kiowa
Bell UH-1H
Bell UH-1?
(2) Bell AH-1S
Inside Hickam near operations were
Site D: F-86E & F-86L
US Army Museum's (Fort DeRussy) Cobra is an AH-1S restored as an AH-1G
At Pearl Harbor near the USS Bowfin submarine is a Chance Vought Regulus I (big thing too)
21 22'06.30 N 157 56'19.72 W
When I was at Wheeler in 1998:
P-40B mockup that was used in Tora, Tora, Tora
Hiller OH-23G Raven
Bell OH-58A Kiowa
Bell UH-1H
Bell UH-1?
(2) Bell AH-1S
Inside Hickam near operations were
Site D: F-86E & F-86L
Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:36 am
Roger Cain wrote:US Army Museum's (Fort DeRussy) Cobra is an AH-1S restored as an AH-1G
I have that one.
Roger Cain wrote:At Pearl Harbor near the USS Bowfin submarine is a Chance Vought Regulus I (big thing too)
21 22'06.30 N 157 56'19.72 W
New entry added.
Roger Cain wrote:When I was at Wheeler in 1998:
P-40B mockup that was used in Tora, Tora, Tora
Hiller OH-23G Raven
Bell OH-58A Kiowa
Bell UH-1H
Bell UH-1?
(2) Bell AH-1S
Finding static helos using Google Earth is darn near impossible. Wheeler is also a large base if you count the residential areas. Any clues for me regarding the location(s)?
Roger Cain wrote:Inside Hickam near operations were
Site D: F-86E & F-86L
So are you saying that at Site D, the airframe on the bottom is a F-86? The tail looks like an F-84. Is there another F-86 close by?
Thanks.
Mike
Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:37 pm
mrhenniger wrote:Roger Cain wrote:When I was at Wheeler in 1998:
P-40B mockup that was used in Tora, Tora, Tora
Hiller OH-23G Raven
Bell OH-58A Kiowa
Bell UH-1H
Bell UH-1?
(2) Bell AH-1S
Finding static helos using Google Earth is darn near impossible. Wheeler is also a large base if you count the residential areas. Any clues for me regarding the location(s)?
I looked at Google Earth and noticed the P-40 has been removed from it's platform, the other helo's are in the same area at 21 29 13.35 N 158 01 44.68 W
Of those listed above, my unidentified UH-1? and one AH-1S were near a building on the road under trees and I was unable to locate them with Google. Even my pictures came out horribly underexposed in that area because it was so dark, or my skills are crap.
Roger Cain wrote:Inside Hickam near operations were
Site D: F-86E & F-86L
mrhenniger wrote:So are you saying that at Site D, the airframe on the bottom is a F-86? The tail looks like an F-84. Is there another F-86 close by?
At the time of my visit I photographed F-86E USAF 51-2841, and F-86L USAF 52-4191. Don't know what else to tell you on those?
There was a third F-86E USAF 50-0653, located elsewhere already listed on your list with an empty pad now showing on Google. I saw no F-84's during my visit.
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:25 pm
Is the B-18 Bolo still in situ?
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:35 pm
Shay wrote:Is the B-18 Bolo still in situ?
Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis
Situ Hawaii??
Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:24 pm
Roger Cain wrote:Shay wrote:Is the B-18 Bolo still in situ?
Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis
Situ Hawaii??
Big Island Bomber
This B-18 Bomber crashed in 1941 while being flown by then Captain Boyd Hubbard (later Brigadier General; 1912-1982). The aircraft was flying on a routine instrument night flight at 10,000 feet in the vicinity of Hilo on the north shore of the Big Island when a bearing failure caused the loss of one engine. All possible fuel and cargo was jettisoned but the aircraft was too heavy to maintain altitude on one engine. The pilot attempted to reach a field on the northwest tip of the island, (Suiter Field) but crashed into Mauna Kea at 3,500 feet, 13 miles short of the alternate field. Only minor injuries were suffered by the crew.
The plane was in such a remote location and had such shear cliffs on either side of the of the crash site that it took a day and a half for rescuers to reach it and another day and half to get back out. The aircraft still remains today where it crashed landed in a very remote part of the Big Island of Hawaii. Some parts were recovered from the wreck and used to restore the aircraft that is on display at the USAF Museum.
More pictures here:
http://www.airpirates.com/gallery/Hawaii_1?page=2
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:29 pm
Thanks for educating me on that, I had never seen this before.........
B-18
Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:13 am
The Hawaiian B-18 is missing its nose turret now... did it end up on the one at Castle?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... Castle.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... Castle.jpg
Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:27 am
Roger Cain wrote:I looked at Google Earth and noticed the P-40 has been removed from it's platform, the other helo's are in the same area at 21 29 13.35 N 158 01 44.68 W
Thanks!
Roger Cain wrote:At the time of my visit I photographed F-86E USAF 51-2841, and F-86L USAF 52-4191. Don't know what else to tell you on those?
I changed the entry to reflect the possibility the second airframe is a F-86 or F-84.
Roger Cain wrote:There was a third F-86E USAF 50-0653, located elsewhere already listed on your list with an empty pad now showing on Google.
Check. How hard was it to get on base?
Mike
Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:56 pm
Shay wrote:Is the B-18 Bolo still in situ?
Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis
Hello, this is Chris Rathbun of Laupahoehoe Nui LLC, owner of the property where this B-18 is located. Yes, it is still in situ in Waikaloa gulch, between Waimanu and Honopue valleys in the district of Hamakua on the Island of Hawai'i- the "Big Island".
The Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum is currently proposing a survey trip to see if the craft is recoverable. Their interest triggered mine, and led me to this site.
Chris
Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:25 am
Hey Chris thanks for responding and welcome aboard.
It's great to actually talk with someone who has first hand knowledge of this aircraft.
Last I had ever heard anything regarding this bird with a faint rumour that a group was working with a Army National Guard unit to heavylift the B-18 out of the Gulch. But like I mentioned it was a rumour.
As far as the ownership rights go. I think you'll find that the USAF will lay no claim to the aircraft. NMUSAF might be a different question though, even though they had plenty of time to lay claim to the aircraft. While the NMUSAF is nowhere as difficult to deal with as the NHC (Naval Historical Center) is, it's has made some questionable decisions (F-105D, A-12 etc etc) here in the recent past. I think the best way to look at it is that the B-18 was "cognitively" abandoned on your property by the USAAC. There fore anything within the confines or on your property belongs to you. If the NMUSAF were to try and claim the Bolo, I would have to imagine there is a statue of limitations that needs to be examined. One person I recommend talking to would be Lex Cralley (http://brewstercorsair.com )who just in recent years battled the NHC through the court system over an abandoned Corsair that he recovered from private property in NC. And HE WON. Lex is a member of WIX (screename F3A-1) and probalbly people here have his point of contact information if you wanted to speak with him.
Any idea when the PHAM trip to the B-18 is planned to happen? Also if you have any recent pictures of the Bolo to share, I'm sure a lot of people here would love to see them.
I think you'll find that WIX is great resource. Whether it be in information or networking with individuals that can help.
Again Welcome
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
It's great to actually talk with someone who has first hand knowledge of this aircraft.
Last I had ever heard anything regarding this bird with a faint rumour that a group was working with a Army National Guard unit to heavylift the B-18 out of the Gulch. But like I mentioned it was a rumour.
As far as the ownership rights go. I think you'll find that the USAF will lay no claim to the aircraft. NMUSAF might be a different question though, even though they had plenty of time to lay claim to the aircraft. While the NMUSAF is nowhere as difficult to deal with as the NHC (Naval Historical Center) is, it's has made some questionable decisions (F-105D, A-12 etc etc) here in the recent past. I think the best way to look at it is that the B-18 was "cognitively" abandoned on your property by the USAAC. There fore anything within the confines or on your property belongs to you. If the NMUSAF were to try and claim the Bolo, I would have to imagine there is a statue of limitations that needs to be examined. One person I recommend talking to would be Lex Cralley (http://brewstercorsair.com )who just in recent years battled the NHC through the court system over an abandoned Corsair that he recovered from private property in NC. And HE WON. Lex is a member of WIX (screename F3A-1) and probalbly people here have his point of contact information if you wanted to speak with him.
Any idea when the PHAM trip to the B-18 is planned to happen? Also if you have any recent pictures of the Bolo to share, I'm sure a lot of people here would love to see them.
I think you'll find that WIX is great resource. Whether it be in information or networking with individuals that can help.
Again Welcome
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:58 am
Hi,
Just to clear the air the case with Lex never went to court the charges were dropped and he was deeded the A/C throught the help of a senator but it never was heared in a court of law. Its best to talk to Lex direct than to get wrong info from hear say, The wix board is great but not always correct.
Thanks Mike
Just to clear the air the case with Lex never went to court the charges were dropped and he was deeded the A/C throught the help of a senator but it never was heared in a court of law. Its best to talk to Lex direct than to get wrong info from hear say, The wix board is great but not always correct.
Thanks Mike
Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:15 pm
This is how Lex Cralley got his corsair, if I recall correctly: (I posted this info in answer to a previous inquiry on WIX). Mr. Cralley, with the aid of a member of the legislature, got the following "private law" passed. It was inserted as a provision of the Defense appropriations bill in 2005.
In the 2005 Defense Department Appropriations Act, enrolled as Public Law 108-375, in Title X of the act is this law:
SEC. 1083. TRANSFER OF HISTORIC F3A-1 BREWSTER CORSAIR AIRCRAFT.
(a) Authority to Convey.--The Secretary of the Navy may convey,
without consideration, to Lex Cralley of Princeton Minnesota (in this
section referred to as ``transferee''), all right, title, and interest
of the United States in and to a F3A-1 Brewster Corsair aircraft (Bureau
Number 04634). The conveyance shall be made by means of a deed of gift.
(b) Condition of Aircraft.--The aircraft shall be conveyed under
subsection (a) in its current unflyable, ``as is'' condition. The
Secretary is not required to repair or alter the condition of the
aircraft before conveying ownership of the aircraft.
(c) Conveyance at No Cost to the United States.--The conveyance of
the aircraft under subsection (a) shall be made at no cost to the United
States. Any costs associated with the conveyance and costs of operation
and maintenance of the aircraft conveyed shall be borne by the
transferee.
(d) Additional Terms and Conditions.--The Secretary may require such
additional terms and conditions in connection with a conveyance under
this section as the Secretary considers appropriate to protect the
interests of the United States.
kevin
In the 2005 Defense Department Appropriations Act, enrolled as Public Law 108-375, in Title X of the act is this law:
SEC. 1083. TRANSFER OF HISTORIC F3A-1 BREWSTER CORSAIR AIRCRAFT.
(a) Authority to Convey.--The Secretary of the Navy may convey,
without consideration, to Lex Cralley of Princeton Minnesota (in this
section referred to as ``transferee''), all right, title, and interest
of the United States in and to a F3A-1 Brewster Corsair aircraft (Bureau
Number 04634). The conveyance shall be made by means of a deed of gift.
(b) Condition of Aircraft.--The aircraft shall be conveyed under
subsection (a) in its current unflyable, ``as is'' condition. The
Secretary is not required to repair or alter the condition of the
aircraft before conveying ownership of the aircraft.
(c) Conveyance at No Cost to the United States.--The conveyance of
the aircraft under subsection (a) shall be made at no cost to the United
States. Any costs associated with the conveyance and costs of operation
and maintenance of the aircraft conveyed shall be borne by the
transferee.
(d) Additional Terms and Conditions.--The Secretary may require such
additional terms and conditions in connection with a conveyance under
this section as the Secretary considers appropriate to protect the
interests of the United States.
kevin
Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:22 pm
Shay,
Actually my knowledge is second hand; our property is extremely large and rugged, and while I have spent many weeks hiking around on the property I have never made it to the site of the crash.
I think it is pretty clear that after 65 years the aircraft was abandoned, but we want to clear up any possible legal issues BEFORE we wind up in court with the government. Ownership will be the first issue we resolve if recovery appears to be a possibility.
My understanding is that the Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum plans on visiting the site within the month, but no date certain has been set. Once this happens we will have plenty of new photos and information to share.
The Discovery Channel has also contacted us about making a documentary if recovery takes place.
Thank you for your interest and your welcome!
Chris
Actually my knowledge is second hand; our property is extremely large and rugged, and while I have spent many weeks hiking around on the property I have never made it to the site of the crash.
I think it is pretty clear that after 65 years the aircraft was abandoned, but we want to clear up any possible legal issues BEFORE we wind up in court with the government. Ownership will be the first issue we resolve if recovery appears to be a possibility.
My understanding is that the Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum plans on visiting the site within the month, but no date certain has been set. Once this happens we will have plenty of new photos and information to share.
The Discovery Channel has also contacted us about making a documentary if recovery takes place.
Thank you for your interest and your welcome!
Chris