F-15's vs QF-4's

[Warhawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISpZYaj ... ed&search=

[RMAllnutt]

Check this one out... some of the best air-to-air photography I've ever seen. I know is has probably been posted before, but it really bears repeating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OdQrQRaL0&NR

Cheers,
Richard

[Warhawk]

Thanks Richard. I had not seen that one before.

[Scott Rose]

Good stuff guys. I put the links up on Warbirds-Online (http://www.warbirds-online.org/) because I liked them so much.

[tom d. friedman]

great footage. incredible the swiss are still operating "relics" such as the f-5 & israeli kfir!!! especially with that country's money!!! but you know what??? they hung in their with the f-18!!! why would the swiss buy the kfir??

[Randy Haskin]

why would the swiss buy the kfir??

Looks like a Mirage to me.

[Boneyard]

They were indeed Mirage 3, all the remaining operational Swiss ones were retired on 3rd December 2003.

[Ollie]

I'd say Mirage 5 since they have canards.

[tom d. friedman]

kfir... note the canards just to the rear of the nose. the israelis produced the mirage with that modification.

[Boneyard]

Mirage 3

Switzerland operated Mirage IIICS, IIIS, IIIBS, IIIDS and IIIRS

Most of these aircraft were built locally in Switzerland, many were upgraded with canards, etc.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/401-500/walk411_MirageIII_Bob_Verhegghen/walk411.htm

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0503157

[Broken-Wrench]

Hey, it looks like something Randy could shoot down! A drone flying straight as a arrow with no weapons.

[tom d. friedman]

ooohhh randy.... you better get radar lock with that comment!!!

[Ztex]

Do they feel remorse for killing such a fine airplane?

Great video but...Makes me kinda sad...

[sabredriver]

DISGUSTING shooting down a F-4G sorry Q... criminal that was such a lovely plane sob sob

when will F-22s shoot down QF-16s

i cant wait..

F-16 just dont do it for me.....

[Randy Haskin]

Do they feel remorse for killing such a fine airplane?

DISGUSTING shooting down a F-4G

Remorse?

I'm someone who has an immense sense of, and respect for, the history that these airframes have. However, I also have an equal need for me and my fellow fighter pilots to get the best possible training so as to provide the best possible military force for the United States.

In my book, one outweighs the other significantly.

Here's a repost of my thoughts on the subject from a post in 2005.....

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... 02&start=0

As a fighter pilot, we train extensively for weapon employment using electronics and rules-of-thumb to "score" missile and gun hits. This is effective for teaching the mechanics of how to employ weapons against another aircraft, there is simply no substitute for seeing the whole process work in person. The drones are shot down during a program called "Combat Archer", which is designed to test many aspects of weapons, aircraft, and pilots. They take air-to-air missles which have reached the end of their shelf life and remove the actual warhead, replacing it with a telemetry package that transmits guidance and performance information back to a ground station.

Then, they invite front-line fighter units to Tyndall AFB, who bring combat operational aircraft and pilots to shoot the missiles. This exercises and tests the pilots' ability to operate the weapons systems. It exercises and tests the aircrafts' ability to carry, target, and shoot an actual missile. Finally it tests the missiles' ability to locate a target and track it to a 'kill'.

Three different types of drones are used at Combat Archer: the MQM-107 and Ryan Firebee subscale drones, and the F-4 "full scale" drone. Depending on the missile to be shot and what they are specifically trying to test determines what drone will be used.

In my case, I shot an AIM-7 Sparrow radar-guided missile at an F-4, and my missile shot was testing the ability to shoot when the target is performing a certain type of electronic jamming. Since the subscale drones could not carry this particular type of jammer (and since radar target size was a factor) we shot against an F-4.

I can't over-emphasize what a HUGE learning experience it was to shoot an actual missile against an actual target. One of the first things I learned was that, to use some idiomatic language, 'missiles are not laser guns'. What I mean is, shooting a missile does not instantly vaporize your opponent like if you were shooting a laser -- the engagement takes time, and lots of it! It was amazing how much time it took between when my thumb hit the pickle button and when the missile came off the rail (the longest 1.5 seconds ever!). Even more startling was how long a 30-second missile time-of-flight is when you can actually see the other aircraft flying toward you! This effect is even more pronounced for guys who shoot short-range missiles like the AIM-9, when they are actually engaged in a turning dogfight while they lock up and shoot the missile...then have to keep dogfighting as the missile tracks to the target.

Another huge lesson I learned is that missiles are machines and thus open to malfunction. Prior to participating in Combat Archer, I had this strange belief that every time I launched a missile that it would work flawlessly and hit the target. NOT TRUE! I witnessed all manner of malfunctions, from detonations 50 feet in front of the launch aircraft, to guidance fins coming off in flight, to just plain not tracking to the target. I hadn't really contemplated any of these scenarios until I saw them during the exercise. It is much better to experience these learning points under the controlled environment off the coast of the Florida panhandle than it would be in the hostile skies over badguy territory against an enemy that can shoot back.

Yes, it's tragic in a way to destroy warbirds like this...but the experience gained by those who are doing this is immeasurable. If there were an economical way to build a high-performance drone that mimiced the energy, turn rate, IR reflectivity, radar signature, etc, of an actual fighter, I agree that it would be better than shooting down a real warplane.

Unfortunately, it's not.