Osh Warbird Judging
Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:22 am
Kind of a poll type question:
With some of the professional restorations goining on and taking the major awards, is the EAA getting away from its roots?
I mean the EAA seems to me a "home builder/ restorer" group. It seems the awards go to those who spend $$$$ hiring the work doen, not doing it themselves. Not that the pros in the shops don't do a beautiful job, but I think it is just the opposite of the EAA tradition.
My $0.02
Any one else?
With some of the professional restorations goining on and taking the major awards, is the EAA getting away from its roots?
I mean the EAA seems to me a "home builder/ restorer" group. It seems the awards go to those who spend $$$$ hiring the work doen, not doing it themselves. Not that the pros in the shops don't do a beautiful job, but I think it is just the opposite of the EAA tradition.
My $0.02
Any one else?
EAA
Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:54 am
A valid complaint. 1st. I would write Tom P. a polite letter with your concerns. I have heard others say this same type of thing. I feel we are getting more of a corporate type focus (the space plane) than in the past. Perhaps there needs to be a category for owner restored, but where do you set the limits and how do you enforce it? As a Spitfire owner even if I had a shop and the abilty, some things are pretty hard to do yourself. Who's going to overhaul a Merlin or a 3350 at home? Who's going to strip and paint a B-17? Could it be a 51% rule like home building and on the honor system? Some owners are so focused on getting that trophy that a little fudging of the rules might result. I doubt if many have had more fun with a warbird than I have, but mine is not kept pretty and show ready, and the best I have gotten is 3rd place.
Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:34 pm
You have a beauty of a Spit Bill. I think that maybe the self rebuilt cat. is the best route.
????
Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:27 pm
A lot of people were pissed and I mean pissed off when the Gary Kohs FG rebuilt by John Lane was beaten by a L-4 for the Rolls Royce Cup at Reno a few years ago.
The fellow who did the L-4 is a friend of mine and he did the airplane all by himself in his garage and hanger. He's no A & P either but the airplane is perfect and a true timecapsule. It was a true David vs Golith with the guy on his own in his garage vs. the pros with a unlimited budget.
I was very pleased he won!!!
The fellow who did the L-4 is a friend of mine and he did the airplane all by himself in his garage and hanger. He's no A & P either but the airplane is perfect and a true timecapsule. It was a true David vs Golith with the guy on his own in his garage vs. the pros with a unlimited budget.
I was very pleased he won!!!
Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:51 pm
That is awsome. It is the same with cars. I have two old cars, and I did the work with my uncle, father, and a couple of buddies. I feel that the cars llok great(see the your car and an airplane thread on the chat thread). But you go to a car show and there is a '57 Chevy that is not even able to run because it is all modified, and there is a sign with all of the garages that rebuilt parts for this car, and this guy wins. I saw this decal on the back of a 1969 Camero, "It is not what you can buy, but what you can build." Now with warbirds it is different. I can't imagine rebuilding a Corsair or a P-38 in my garage, and wouldn't want to try.
Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:12 pm
I feel for the little guys, but I want the best warbird to get the recognition, no matter where it came from. If big shops or their clients are induced to go the extra mile on restorations in order to win the prize, great.
And sometimes it is the little guys who will make that little extra effort to make things perfect. Check out the article about the L-3 in the last Warbird Digest. That bird can contend against anything out there.
August
And sometimes it is the little guys who will make that little extra effort to make things perfect. Check out the article about the L-3 in the last Warbird Digest. That bird can contend against anything out there.
August
Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:22 pm
Camaro, C-A-M-A-R-O
Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:52 pm
Sorry about that. I am not the best or fastest at a keyboard. I am also a Mopar man.
Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:48 pm
I am a big EAA fan, having never missed Oshkosh since 1974 and Sun N Fun since the early 80's.
I think the best aircraft should win, period. Unfortunately I do believe that politics do play a part in the process. I don't think the judges have anything to say about the politics but maybe the managemant does. This is just my opinion with only rumours and suggestions to back it up.
With the exception of a few shops most of the individual owners can do a better job. There is no pressure to get the project done and more control over the entire process when the owner is doing the work himself.
So far I have won several times
1984 Oshkosh Reserve Grand champion ( before I owned it)
1993 Preservation award
1995 Oshkosh Best P-51
1995 Oshkosh Best T-34
1995 Sun N Fun Reserve Grand Champion
I have also lost when I thought I would win. That is not fun. I have paid for the work and I have done it myself with help. I am just as proud of both outcomes, but the pain of making the payments was much more difficult when paying the shop to do the work rather then myself (free) and my own guys.
There is no doubt that the big money guys get an attitude when they do not win after spending a lot of money on a project. I have never ever heard of a do it yourself guy complaining when losing.
The judges are awesome and very helpfull. It is a great feeling to have them ask you for a second look or a third and you know you are in the running for a trophy. It is even better when you are asked to do a photo flight before the awards are given out. Then it is really obvious you are going home with a trophy.
We are almost done with a complete rebuild of a PT-22 which should be real close to Greg Heckman's that won a couple of years ago. I haven't decided whether to have it judged or not as it does take away some of the fun of the event.
Don't forget the value of the big shops. I have 8 years in the little PT-22 a shop could do it in one. The ratio of 8 to 1 is probably close for other bigger warbirds. Soo we ger more warbirds flying with the shops at full tilt faster then the old way of a guy in the garage doing everything himself.
I think the best aircraft should win, period. Unfortunately I do believe that politics do play a part in the process. I don't think the judges have anything to say about the politics but maybe the managemant does. This is just my opinion with only rumours and suggestions to back it up.
With the exception of a few shops most of the individual owners can do a better job. There is no pressure to get the project done and more control over the entire process when the owner is doing the work himself.
So far I have won several times
1984 Oshkosh Reserve Grand champion ( before I owned it)
1993 Preservation award
1995 Oshkosh Best P-51
1995 Oshkosh Best T-34
1995 Sun N Fun Reserve Grand Champion
I have also lost when I thought I would win. That is not fun. I have paid for the work and I have done it myself with help. I am just as proud of both outcomes, but the pain of making the payments was much more difficult when paying the shop to do the work rather then myself (free) and my own guys.
There is no doubt that the big money guys get an attitude when they do not win after spending a lot of money on a project. I have never ever heard of a do it yourself guy complaining when losing.
The judges are awesome and very helpfull. It is a great feeling to have them ask you for a second look or a third and you know you are in the running for a trophy. It is even better when you are asked to do a photo flight before the awards are given out. Then it is really obvious you are going home with a trophy.
We are almost done with a complete rebuild of a PT-22 which should be real close to Greg Heckman's that won a couple of years ago. I haven't decided whether to have it judged or not as it does take away some of the fun of the event.
Don't forget the value of the big shops. I have 8 years in the little PT-22 a shop could do it in one. The ratio of 8 to 1 is probably close for other bigger warbirds. Soo we ger more warbirds flying with the shops at full tilt faster then the old way of a guy in the garage doing everything himself.