B-17 cockpit windscreen question (Greeley B-17 related)

[Chris Brame]

Here's a still from "Tora! Tora! Tora!":



Note the auxiliary windows in the windscreen - the B-17 fuselage from Greeley, CO appears to have them as well; this is now believed to be the 20th Century Fox studio plane.

My question: Which B-17s had these extra windows? B-17F 42-3374 seems to be the only other survivor that has them, but the Greeley fuselage is a G model, possibly 44-83387 - but would a plane with that serial have those windows?

[Steve Nelson]

I'll have to dig into my references, but as I recall they were added somewhere in the mid to late "G" run. Bear in mind that B-17s were built at three different plants, and not all may have included the extra windows. If there's an "F" that has them, they're probably a post-war retrofit. Don't quot me, but I think the small windows could be opened for ventilation. I'll have to go back and watch the movie, but I don't think any of the flying B-17s in the film have them.

You can also see that the windsheild wipers have been removed are from the studio cockpit. This is often done for studio scenes with cars, as well as removing the rear-view mirror. Makes the scene less cluttered, and you can see the actors better.


SN

[hang the expense]

It seems to me that lockheed-vega built 17s had this from the factory.It can be retro-fitted to other models as well. There is a well known pic of an early G model being test flown over southern calif.Red surrond on stars and I think it says lockheed built. It detracts from the windscreen so I hope the leave it out.

[hang the expense]

It seems to me that lockheed-vega built 17s had this from the factory.It can be retro-fitted to other models as well. There is a well known pic of an early G model being test flown over southern calif.Red surrond on stars and I think it says lockheed built. It detracts from the windscreen so I hope the leave it out.

[b29flteng]

If the windows open, they are not for ventilation but for "clear vision" in case the windows are iced up.

[Tom Crawford]

This one (Swamp Ghost?) seems to have them but can't be totally
sure..it is suppose to be an "E" model. Don't see any others in the registry.

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b17regis ... 12446.html

[hang the expense]

I dont think swamp ghost has them.

[Ztex]

I have been collecting B-17 pics from the web and none of the airplanes in those pictures has these windows.

Swamp Ghost does not have them.

[Swiss Mustangs]

I have been collecting B-17 pics from the web and none of the airplanes in those pictures has these windows.

how about this one ?



Martin

[Swiss Mustangs]

two more...

[skymstr02]

LSFM's "Thunderbird" doesn't have them. Its a Vega built "G" model, block 105. Serial number is 44-85718. I believe that it was built in March, 1945, or there a bouts.

[aerovin]

Those panels were added to allow a pilot to de-ice his main windscreen or, in the worst case, see something if the main screen was iced over. Accordiing to Peter Bowers' authoritative Fortress in the Sky, the panels were added to Douglas production at B-17G-20-DL (42-37894). Photos show Douglas-built airplanes after that block with the four-piece windscreens but by the -85 production (44-83486 and later) they seem to be gone. The Bowers' data on changes for the Douglas production doesn't include anything after the -55 production so it doesn't answer that question.

Various photos from Boeing and Vega B-17G production also show the dual-panel windows, including those of late production Seattle-built airplanes.

I would imagine that it was a fairly straightforward mod to remove the dual panel windows and install the single panels, so the current status of existing airplanes probably is not definitive. I would think that the dual-panel windows were removed where possible to allow greater visibility and the single panels probably sealed better. Many C-47s had the same type windscreen arrangement and most were later modified with the single panels.

[Ztex]

Martin,

Correction..I have been collecting pictures of SURVIVING B-17's...

Those are nice shots.

(BTW Check your PM )