NMUSAF Research

[mike furline]

I've made contact with the NMUSAF asking to set up an appointment to do some research on WWII Luftwaffe aircraft gunsights and/or any documents they may have pertaining to them. I have no idea what is or isn't availible.

Here are some excerpts from the response,

"The Research Division considers research visit requests individually, with preference given to academic and public-benefit projects (i.e. scholars and researchers working on advanced degrees or material for publication). "

Unless you're writing a thesis, knowledge for personal use will be pushed to the back burner.

Artifacts in storage and those not currently on public exhibit are not made available to researchers. The care and preservation of the collection is our overriding priority, we cannot support research visits intent on accessing this three-dimensional material.

I think this really defines what you want in a national museum, it's "our" stuff and you can't look at it.

Reference information and historical documentation is maintained by the NMUSAF Research Division. Research requests and visits for historical information must have specific goals and be narrow in scope. The Research Division cannot support generic information requests or visits intended simply to browse our collections. Each research visit is approved based on its own research merit.

WWII Luftwaffe aircraft gunsights not specific enough?

The Research Division is open for research to U.S. citizens, by appointment only, Monday through Friday, 9:00 am to 3:30pm EST."

Gives the appearence you have a chance to do some research.


After several letters and jumping thru hoops I've had the same run around with the NASM.


Frustrated with national museums,
Mike

[Edward Soye]

Mike,

Have you tried calling up someone at the NMUSAF archives and chatting with them? I was down there last June for half a day doing research on a few particular WWI types that were tested at the old McCook Field.

The three of us each had our own interests that we wanted to pursue and they were most helpful pulling (document) boxes and helping us find whatever they had on the relevant subjects. In fact, when we found what we needed they direced us to a photocopier to use for the small stuff and even offered to (and followed thorugh with) copying the large format stuff and mailing it to us.

And heck we're all Canadian citizens to boot.

They talk tough to keep out the riff raff, but they're really nice folks once you get in the door and prove you've got enough background to know what you're talking about.

Hope you manage to talk to the right person and do the research you have in mind.

Cheers

Edward

[mike furline]

I can't seem to find a phone number on thier webpage.
If you click on "contact" all you get is an e-mail form. If you click on "Research" it tells you to send a written letter.


When I showed up at the RAF Museum Hendon, I asked about "Revi" gunsights and they took me up to the archives and pulled out every thing they had. They couldn't have been more helpfull. I guess it works best when you're not in the country of your origin.

Regards,
Mike

Last edited by mike furline on Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.

[Edward Soye]

Hmm... I can't seem to remember if I made the arrangements or one of the other fellows did. I'll do some digging and see if I can find a phone number for you.

[Edward Soye]

Mike - Check your PMs for contact info.

[Pat Carry]

Perhaps they ought to be reminded exactly who owns the collection at Dayton!

[mike furline]

Mike - Check your PMs for contact info.

Thanks Ed!

[JDK]

Hi Mike,
I've researched in aviation libraries in the UK, Belgum, France, Britain, Canada, the USA and Australia, and am in correspondence with the RNZAF Museum archive at the moment, regarding research there. I've also worked in a small (non-aviation) county museum archive in England. What you are looking at is pretty standard, and I'll try and put it in context.

"The Research Division considers research visit requests individually, with preference given to academic and public-benefit projects (i.e. scholars and researchers working on advanced degrees or material for publication). "

You said:
Unless you're writing a thesis, knowledge for personal use will be pushed to the back burner.

I explain:
Work which is disseminated for public use (wide-read or specific public interest) will be given priority over personal curiosity questions. That does not mean they won't answer a personal question. By helping publishers, academics and the media, they ensure the maximum information is put out there for the maximum number of people - a no-brainer over a personal question for purely personal interest - but they'll usually help there too, unless it's a dingbat question.

Artifacts in storage and those not currently on public exhibit are not made available to researchers. The care and preservation of the collection is our overriding priority, we cannot support research visits intent on accessing this three-dimensional material.

I think this really defines what you want in a national museum, it's "our" stuff and you can't look at it.

Oh, be serious. Plan to take one of the airplanes home because it's 'yours'? Just because you'd like to have a gander at the Xxxxx Mk.1, they are sorry they won't take it out unless there's a good reason - and that's because any museum's first priority is preservation of the artefacts. They also don't have the staff to unwrap and rewrap stuff. If you'd like to make a donation for extra staff... If you have a very specific question, only answerable by an inspection of a three-dimensional object, and can show us it is for wider interest than your own curiosity, I'm sure they'd consider the request.

Reference information and historical documentation is maintained by the NMUSAF Research Division. Research requests and visits for historical information must have specific goals and be narrow in scope. The Research Division cannot support generic information requests or visits intended simply to browse our collections. Each research visit is approved based on its own research merit.

WWII Luftwaffe aircraft gunsights not specific enough?

It's OBVIOUSLY the standard disclaimer, Mike. You'd be amazed at the questions like - 'please tell me, with supporting references, which was better, the Spitfire and the Mustang. I'd like photos, charts and drawings, and I need it by Thursday'. They often forget 'thank you' as well.

The Research Division is open for research to U.S. citizens, by appointment only, Monday through Friday, 9:00 am to 3:30pm EST."

Gives the appearence you have a chance to do some research.

Gee, you are sore. Ask anyone involved in vintage aircraft restoration - one of the main bugbears are 3 am phonecalls by either someone on the other side of the world, or an 'enthusiast' who thinks you'll be as excited as he is about his brilliant new idea. Opening hours. It's not hard.

After several letters and jumping thru hoops I've had the same run around with the NASM.

Get real - that's pretty normal. D'you really think you can just front up and get anything out of store because you think it'd be a neat idea to have a look? Sorry, no.

If you go in with this negative attitude, you'll come out bitter. If you decide to accept the rules put in place so the poor guys running the thing have some hope of doing a percent of the job, and make friends with them, you'll have a lot of assistance.

Of course it's a national collection. But just like the contents of the White House, none of it belongs to one citizen, it belongs to all, and someone's got to manage that. The "I'm a citizen, so I should be able to wander in and demand what I want just because..." argument just don't stand up. Most citizens are reasonable people, and that's fine. There's a great number who are completely unrealistic, a danger to the objects, so bored they'll occupy the staff with pointless discussions for hours, pedal they hobby horse at you (I know, I've been there... ) and waste a lot of time. Almost all museums and archives have a huge backlog of work - because there's either doing the cataloguing and storage right, or not at all. There's no 'good enough'.

A few guidelines are normal, and you are complaining about a standard disclaimer that will have exceptions made if you approach politely and ask nicely with a reasonable explanation of what you want. These guys are public servants; they need to to do a good job for the majority, not just you.

In my experience most people are just trying to do their job as well as they can. If it seems odd, it's worth finding out why; there's usually a good reason. If it's a problem, there's often a way around.

Next, we critique the legal standing of the regular e-mail disclaimer your business puts on the bottom of your e-mails without asking.

Good luck with your research.

Cheers

[mrhenniger]

I can't seem to find a phone number on thier webpage. If you click on "contact" all you get is an e-mail form.

I tried that. The web page crashes everytime for me.

I guess they are sucessfully keeping out the riff raff.

Mike (the frustrated) (also channeling Mudge)

[mrhenniger]

EDIT: DOUBLE POST

Last edited by mrhenniger on Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

[JDK]

Bob Ogden's Museums of the world (old, now) gives the USAFM number as 513-255-3284.

And I agree not putting a contact number on the website isn't really good enough.

Start here?
National Museum of the U.S. Air Force
1100 Spaatz Street
Wright-Patterson AFB OH 45433
(937) 255-3286

[Dan K]

Funny, but in about 3 minutes of googling I discovered the following (This is from a FAQ section about Eglin Air Base):


11. How do I schedule an appointment to do some research?


We do not have a research department, but you may contact:

The National Museum of the United States
NMUSAF/MUA
110 Spaatz Street
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio 45433-7102
Phone: (937) 255-4644, Extension 737

[Karpis]

What BECAME of their research department? When I was volunteering their back in 2001-2002 it seemed there were folks using the archives fairly often.

[Dan K]

What BECAME of their research department? When I was volunteering their back in 2001-2002 it seemed there were folks using the archives fairly often.

Did you volunteer at Eglin? Just so you realize, the info was gleaned from a website about Eglin Air Base. I believe the response concerned research possibilities at Eglin, not at Wright-Pat.

[mike furline]

Hi Mike,
I've researched in aviation libraries in the UK, Belgum, France, Britain, Canada, the USA and Australia, and am in correspondence with the RNZAF Museum archive at the moment, regarding research there. I've also worked in a small (non-aviation) county museum archive in England. What you are looking at is pretty standard, and I'll try and put it in context.

"The Research Division considers research visit requests individually, with preference given to academic and public-benefit projects (i.e. scholars and researchers working on advanced degrees or material for publication). "

You said:
Unless you're writing a thesis, knowledge for personal use will be pushed to the back burner.

I explain:
Work which is disseminated for public use (wide-read or specific public interest) will be given priority over personal curiosity questions. That does not mean they won't answer a personal question. By helping publishers, academics and the media, they ensure the maximum information is put out there for the maximum number of people - a no-brainer over a personal question for purely personal interest - but they'll usually help there too, unless it's a dingbat question.

So personal interest to learn isn't good enough?

Artifacts in storage and those not currently on public exhibit are not made available to researchers. The care and preservation of the collection is our overriding priority, we cannot support research visits intent on accessing this three-dimensional material.

I think this really defines what you want in a national museum, it's "our" stuff and you can't look at it.

Oh, be serious. Plan to take one of the airplanes home because it's 'yours'? Just because you'd like to have a gander at the Xxxxx Mk.1, they are sorry they won't take it out unless there's a good reason - and that's because any museum's first priority is preservation of the artefacts. They also don't have the staff to unwrap and rewrap stuff. If you'd like to make a donation for extra staff... If you have a very specific question, only answerable by an inspection of a three-dimensional object, and can show us it is for wider interest than your own curiosity, I'm sure they'd consider the request.

Please point out where I demand to take something home?
It's not like I showed up un-announced and demanded to finger f**k everything. I tried to make an appointment following thier rules.
I realize no museum has all of its collection on display, but if an item is put into storage then no one should ever see it again? Whats the point of having it then?


Reference information and historical documentation is maintained by the NMUSAF Research Division. Research requests and visits for historical information must have specific goals and be narrow in scope. The Research Division cannot support generic information requests or visits intended simply to browse our collections. Each research visit is approved based on its own research merit.

WWII Luftwaffe aircraft gunsights not specific enough?

It's OBVIOUSLY the standard disclaimer, Mike. You'd be amazed at the questions like - 'please tell me, with supporting references, which was better, the Spitfire and the Mustang. I'd like photos, charts and drawings, and I need it by Thursday'. They often forget 'thank you' as well.

The Research Division is open for research to U.S. citizens, by appointment only, Monday through Friday, 9:00 am to 3:30pm EST."

Gives the appearence you have a chance to do some research.

Gee, you are sore. Ask anyone involved in vintage aircraft restoration - one of the main bugbears are 3 am phonecalls by either someone on the other side of the world, or an 'enthusiast' who thinks you'll be as excited as he is about his brilliant new idea. Opening hours. It's not hard.

The hours of operation are fine, but if you're denied access it doesn't really matter when they are open.

After several letters and jumping thru hoops I've had the same run around with the NASM.

Get real - that's pretty normal. D'you really think you can just front up and get anything out of store because you think it'd be a neat idea to have a look? Sorry, no.

If you go in with this negative attitude, you'll come out bitter. If you decide to accept the rules put in place so the poor guys running the thing have some hope of doing a percent of the job, and make friends with them, you'll have a lot of assistance.

Of course it's a national collection. But just like the contents of the White House, none of it belongs to one citizen, it belongs to all, and someone's got to manage that. The "I'm a citizen, so I should be able to wander in and demand what I want just because..." argument just don't stand up. Most citizens are reasonable people, and that's fine. There's a great number who are completely unrealistic, a danger to the objects, so bored they'll occupy the staff with pointless discussions for hours, pedal they hobby horse at you (I know, I've been there... ) and waste a lot of time. Almost all museums and archives have a huge backlog of work - because there's either doing the cataloguing and storage right, or not at all. There's no 'good enough'.

A few guidelines are normal, and you are complaining about a standard disclaimer that will have exceptions made if you approach politely and ask nicely with a reasonable explanation of what you want. These guys are public servants; they need to to do a good job for the majority, not just you.

In my experience most people are just trying to do their job as well as they can. If it seems odd, it's worth finding out why; there's usually a good reason. If it's a problem, there's often a way around.

Next, we critique the legal standing of the regular e-mail disclaimer your business puts on the bottom of your e-mails without asking.

Good luck with your research.

Cheers

Yep, It's all my fault.
I e-mailed and wrote a letter to the Research Dept. as per the website and posted the response I was given. My bad.
I simply asked to setup an appointment to be determined by them to view/research a/c gunsights that are in the collection.
I was told my priority wasn't high enough, whats in the collection but not on display cannot be looked at, and my request wasn't specific enough.


Regards,
Mike

Last edited by mike furline on Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.