Be CAREFUL whose chain you JERK
Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:13 am
Got an inquiry from someone who wanted to purchase a Corsair wing. I dutifully returned the call and was informed by the respondent (this might be the correct term later on) that the wing was wanted to make a table. He said that he saw the Discovery Wings show and wanted to make a table out of a Corsair wing. I told him that I could get him one for $60,000, and he mentioned that it was out of his price range.
I got to catch some of the show's psychobabble the other day, and after some MGD disbelief, am wondering if this is a real threat to the warbird community? Are these guys going to inspire a whole generation of idiots who see the advantages of aviation parts more in COFFEE tables than in flying landmarks or attractions?
Comments are appreciated, but I'm a bit worried for the safety of anybody I find in my usual haunts...
I got to catch some of the show's psychobabble the other day, and after some MGD disbelief, am wondering if this is a real threat to the warbird community? Are these guys going to inspire a whole generation of idiots who see the advantages of aviation parts more in COFFEE tables than in flying landmarks or attractions?
Comments are appreciated, but I'm a bit worried for the safety of anybody I find in my usual haunts...
Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:28 am
all of your website pages load for me except the airframe section, it just times out.
any idea?
any idea?
Parts for furniture
Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:40 am
Dont think this is a big threat but someone with enough money might just hack some good stuff apart. I would love to have a wing or other part as a table but I would use something totally expendable. Like a DC-9 horizontal or Cub aileron... or a radial engine case that is never going to fly again. In this day and age when most anything can be built it might be cheaper to mock up a historic aircraft wing/parts to make into furniture. Can you imagine the size of the room that guy would need to have the Corsair wing as a table!?!? Dont really think he knew what he was getting into! Just my thoughts....
Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:06 am
Heard one of the guys on that program died recently, only watched it once so don't know the people there
Corsair Conference table
Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:20 pm
Hmmmm,...a Corsair conference table..."only" 60K. Some of us were
discussing(and diss-cussing!) the WingNuts TV show at the "Speaking of
Boneyards" thread when someone brought up the point that "we exist in
a free-market economy and a buyer has a right to do with HIS PROPERTY what HE(or she) wishes".
May I suggest, that this mentality is at the center of some disagreements
amongst Warbirders? Do we Own these Artifacts, or are we buying the
Privilege of their care in order to pass them on in time to like-minded
individuals who are interested in preserving history?
When a REPLICA is destroyed during use, my main concern is for the
also-destroyed ORIGINAL parts used to make it fly. The "pool" of
original parts is reduced by X amount by this event. Dollars cannot
replace the original metallurgy or history! This "flux" is often brought
on by the "late-owners" cavalier attitude toward aircraft limitations,
their lax skills as an aviator, or in maintenance.....because they were
the OWNER of the aircraft!
I am not suggesting grounding the warbirds in order to protect them....
I am suggesting that, just because a person can BUY a Warbird....does
NOT mean they have the skills or mentality to CARE for it! And the same
goes for artifacts of Warbirds, in my opinion. There is also an implied
responsibility on the part of the seller....but I ain't goin' there. I am
already way off the original intent of this post, and I'm hungry!
Free-market economy and human inginuity also suggest this...If I chop
a 60K wing of an ORIGINAL, I can sell 6, 10, or 50 etc. smaller tables.
Then there is all those piles of warbird debris that the archeologists are
documenting these days. Tables for the taking...and almost free.
We already have reproductions representing original stuff, and we also
know that they don't have the same impact as the REAL thing. (unless
your "beloved one" is whacking you with it because of the $$ you spent!)
I don't think we're seeing the dawn of a new decorating statement, but
forgotten field has experienced a "disturbing blip" on the screen!
And now for the "good side" of free-market economics...
(knock, knock, knock), Yessir, I have here on my list, that you
purchased a "C-119 Cargo Clamshell Hot Tub for 30" and I represent the XXX Air Museum and we guarantee you a healthy tax write-off if you donate yer........
Naw, don't worry forgotten field...well I gotta go eat, an double-check
the locks on the L-2 parts!!!
discussing(and diss-cussing!) the WingNuts TV show at the "Speaking of
Boneyards" thread when someone brought up the point that "we exist in
a free-market economy and a buyer has a right to do with HIS PROPERTY what HE(or she) wishes".
May I suggest, that this mentality is at the center of some disagreements
amongst Warbirders? Do we Own these Artifacts, or are we buying the
Privilege of their care in order to pass them on in time to like-minded
individuals who are interested in preserving history?
When a REPLICA is destroyed during use, my main concern is for the
also-destroyed ORIGINAL parts used to make it fly. The "pool" of
original parts is reduced by X amount by this event. Dollars cannot
replace the original metallurgy or history! This "flux" is often brought
on by the "late-owners" cavalier attitude toward aircraft limitations,
their lax skills as an aviator, or in maintenance.....because they were
the OWNER of the aircraft!
I am not suggesting grounding the warbirds in order to protect them....
I am suggesting that, just because a person can BUY a Warbird....does
NOT mean they have the skills or mentality to CARE for it! And the same
goes for artifacts of Warbirds, in my opinion. There is also an implied
responsibility on the part of the seller....but I ain't goin' there. I am
already way off the original intent of this post, and I'm hungry!
Free-market economy and human inginuity also suggest this...If I chop
a 60K wing of an ORIGINAL, I can sell 6, 10, or 50 etc. smaller tables.
Then there is all those piles of warbird debris that the archeologists are
documenting these days. Tables for the taking...and almost free.
We already have reproductions representing original stuff, and we also
know that they don't have the same impact as the REAL thing. (unless
your "beloved one" is whacking you with it because of the $$ you spent!)
I don't think we're seeing the dawn of a new decorating statement, but
forgotten field has experienced a "disturbing blip" on the screen!
And now for the "good side" of free-market economics...
(knock, knock, knock), Yessir, I have here on my list, that you
purchased a "C-119 Cargo Clamshell Hot Tub for 30" and I represent the XXX Air Museum and we guarantee you a healthy tax write-off if you donate yer........
Naw, don't worry forgotten field...well I gotta go eat, an double-check
the locks on the L-2 parts!!!
Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:51 pm
You guys crack me up! Why not pool your resources and buy and restore an airplane? That has much more value than complaining about how other people spend their money or who they sell their junk to. Restore a C-54 and put those elevators to good use, or don't lament that they turned into a coffee table. If this stuff had any value whatsoever to legitimate restorers, they would already have bought it. They know it's there! How many F4 burner cans does the Collings Foundation need? I'm sure Aero Trader has enough B-25 rudders to supply the B-25 restoration market for the next 100 years.
This stuff is only rare if it is, well, rare. That implies that someone actually needs it for something. Otherwise it will all just turn into Budweiser cans. Where do you propose to store all this "valuable" stuff, and who will pay for it?
<RANT OFF>
This stuff is only rare if it is, well, rare. That implies that someone actually needs it for something. Otherwise it will all just turn into Budweiser cans. Where do you propose to store all this "valuable" stuff, and who will pay for it?
<RANT OFF>
Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:05 pm
Hey:
I think it was a joke, just to ruffle your feathers. I'll even bet it was Col Rohr.
Anyone got a Zero tail I can put on my roof? How much, what? $200k?
Got an inquiry from someone who wanted to purchase a Corsair wing. I dutifully returned the call and was informed by the respondent (this might be the correct term later on) that the wing was wanted to make a table. He said that he saw the Discovery Wings show and wanted to make a table out of a Corsair wing. I told him that I could get him one for $60,000, and he mentioned that it was out of his price range.
I think it was a joke, just to ruffle your feathers. I'll even bet it was Col Rohr.
Anyone got a Zero tail I can put on my roof? How much, what? $200k?
Jerking our chain
Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:45 pm
If forgotten field has "jerked our chain", then I doff my hat to him! I've
been had!
As far as the AB cans, C-54 rudder, etc. I was going to address that at
the other thread...but since we're here...
I could care less about them, now. As I alluded to with the C-119 Hot
Tub, some of these parts are in "polished condition and climate controlled storage", being adored by enthusiasts....that is good! We can get 'em
if we need 'em that badly.
But the SUBJECT here was a F4U wing...this is "way outside" the scope of some ABcans! Now we're getting closer to the Spirit of St. Louis table-
lamp!
One other thing, concerning the "older gentleman" who manages National
(the salvage yard in one of the series scenes). That fella has been there
on that site since 1960...and I'll wager that he knows the collectable value
of everything there, and it is priced accordingly. The Mohawks etc. are probably still there because of an intuition, rather than laziness. If there is
an A-10 "deuce" tub still there, it probably is because of what he is asking for it.
The WingNuts that purchased that stuff did not get it cheaply. The common(today) stuff like DC-9 fins..most of us don't care about...but some guy restoring the H
TERS, "babe jet" 50yrs from now may differ with us.
Sorry dude...we tried!
But as bdk says we can't save it all! It's a good thing that the Ed Maloneys
of the world didn't let that slow them down that much.
p.s.
bdk,
Some of us commenting here are, and have been buying and storing stuff for years. Not because we can get rich...but because we remember when
they were almost all gone, and what they represent in history. Maybe
I can get enough bits together to get some "wings around me". Some have paid in less tangible currency, volunteering and getting pizza-payoff
and the joy of seeing something that was a heap returned to the air. Some
didn't see daddy much because he was off restoring yet another 51 or
Staggerwing or aiding in a new museum! Your right bdk we can't save it all
but please understand that some of this touches on emotions that a
free-market economy cannot account for.
pps,
Since parts are so plentiful please send all available Taylor L-2 parts
addressed to A. Nutz, care of WIX. I need everything but the fuse. They
don't have to be perfect, but do need to be potentially airworthy.
ppps,
Dear WIX, please tell me when my mailbox is full...
been had!
As far as the AB cans, C-54 rudder, etc. I was going to address that at
the other thread...but since we're here...
I could care less about them, now. As I alluded to with the C-119 Hot
Tub, some of these parts are in "polished condition and climate controlled storage", being adored by enthusiasts....that is good! We can get 'em
if we need 'em that badly.
But the SUBJECT here was a F4U wing...this is "way outside" the scope of some ABcans! Now we're getting closer to the Spirit of St. Louis table-
lamp!
One other thing, concerning the "older gentleman" who manages National
(the salvage yard in one of the series scenes). That fella has been there
on that site since 1960...and I'll wager that he knows the collectable value
of everything there, and it is priced accordingly. The Mohawks etc. are probably still there because of an intuition, rather than laziness. If there is
an A-10 "deuce" tub still there, it probably is because of what he is asking for it.
The WingNuts that purchased that stuff did not get it cheaply. The common(today) stuff like DC-9 fins..most of us don't care about...but some guy restoring the H
TERS, "babe jet" 50yrs from now may differ with us.
Sorry dude...we tried!
But as bdk says we can't save it all! It's a good thing that the Ed Maloneys
of the world didn't let that slow them down that much.
p.s.
bdk,
Some of us commenting here are, and have been buying and storing stuff for years. Not because we can get rich...but because we remember when
they were almost all gone, and what they represent in history. Maybe
I can get enough bits together to get some "wings around me". Some have paid in less tangible currency, volunteering and getting pizza-payoff
and the joy of seeing something that was a heap returned to the air. Some
didn't see daddy much because he was off restoring yet another 51 or
Staggerwing or aiding in a new museum! Your right bdk we can't save it all
but please understand that some of this touches on emotions that a
free-market economy cannot account for.
pps,
Since parts are so plentiful please send all available Taylor L-2 parts
addressed to A. Nutz, care of WIX. I need everything but the fuse. They
don't have to be perfect, but do need to be potentially airworthy.
ppps,
Dear WIX, please tell me when my mailbox is full...
Last edited by airnutz on Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:02 am
B-25 Bomber Desk
http://www.motoart.com/html/desk_chairs.htm
Click on "B-25 Bomber"
MotoArt is pleased to introduce our new B-25 Rear Elevator Desk. This is an extremely limited edition of twenty units only. There will be no more. This aircraft is famous for the Doolittle raid executed from the deck of the USS Hornet as retaliation for the attack on Pearl Harbor. The B-25 medium range bomber was deployed in all theaters during World War II. With only a handful of these flying today, time has witnessed almost complete extinction of nearly 6,500 of these historic planes.
MotoArt has captured this era of history by using an authentic B-25 rear elevator in our new executive desk. The skeletal aluminum frame once covered by cloth is now powder coated with a metallic finish. The desk surface is 1/2" glass with a polished edge contouring the dimensions of this rare unit. Each piece is handcrafted to your height and color specifications.
Price: $17,000.00
http://www.motoart.com/html/desk_chairs.htm
Click on "B-25 Bomber"
MotoArt is pleased to introduce our new B-25 Rear Elevator Desk. This is an extremely limited edition of twenty units only. There will be no more. This aircraft is famous for the Doolittle raid executed from the deck of the USS Hornet as retaliation for the attack on Pearl Harbor. The B-25 medium range bomber was deployed in all theaters during World War II. With only a handful of these flying today, time has witnessed almost complete extinction of nearly 6,500 of these historic planes.
MotoArt has captured this era of history by using an authentic B-25 rear elevator in our new executive desk. The skeletal aluminum frame once covered by cloth is now powder coated with a metallic finish. The desk surface is 1/2" glass with a polished edge contouring the dimensions of this rare unit. Each piece is handcrafted to your height and color specifications.
Price: $17,000.00
micarta club
Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:19 am
bdk..if you have the catalog...what are they asking for the 6-blade
Micarta Run-in Club? I'll bet its a doozy!
Micarta Run-in Club? I'll bet its a doozy!
Parts and such
Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:25 am
I am all for alternative uses of warbirds. I am also all for alternative uses of warbird parts- come visit the hangar and see what I am doing with some of my "finer" pieces. Problem is that for every dollar spent on " a classic warbird desk," that is a dollar not spent in real restoration. I know we live in a free market economy. There are HUGE piles of warbird parts laying out there rotting all over the US. I am getting good at finding them and getting them to people who need the parts. But I am also just amazed at how many people, educated and otherwise, have no concept of what it really takes to own and operate a warbird, or that some one (like myself) could make a living at preserving them (by assembling parts and re-distributing them).
It's my whole "15" minutes of attention theory. I'd like "Moto Art" more if they balanced their show with stuff about "why" the stuff is so important. They have their angle on the economy because of the popularity of airplanes, aviation history, etc. But there is no tribute to the source of this popularity, the preservation issues (which effect their marketability), and how the public could help out keeping airplanes flying. Do you think the show would continue if they went to landfills and made their art? I doubt it, and by the mentality of the producers, even if they did make a show like that I doubt they would make any comments about our growing problem of waste disposal in the US.
So it's irresponsible marketing. It would be the same thing if Discovery Channel made a show about art thieves, car thieves, and said that this was the hot way/means to show people about car and art collecting.
I know we can't preserve all of it. I know that more of it will go by the wayside than I will preserve. But I also know that our copycat culture will now drive up parts prices for end users (me, other owners) if there is a new wave of idiots taking warbird parts and making them into coffee tables.
But hey, it's America, and if you have enough money, or "Juice," you can do anything! Isn't it great!
It's my whole "15" minutes of attention theory. I'd like "Moto Art" more if they balanced their show with stuff about "why" the stuff is so important. They have their angle on the economy because of the popularity of airplanes, aviation history, etc. But there is no tribute to the source of this popularity, the preservation issues (which effect their marketability), and how the public could help out keeping airplanes flying. Do you think the show would continue if they went to landfills and made their art? I doubt it, and by the mentality of the producers, even if they did make a show like that I doubt they would make any comments about our growing problem of waste disposal in the US.
So it's irresponsible marketing. It would be the same thing if Discovery Channel made a show about art thieves, car thieves, and said that this was the hot way/means to show people about car and art collecting.
I know we can't preserve all of it. I know that more of it will go by the wayside than I will preserve. But I also know that our copycat culture will now drive up parts prices for end users (me, other owners) if there is a new wave of idiots taking warbird parts and making them into coffee tables.
But hey, it's America, and if you have enough money, or "Juice," you can do anything! Isn't it great!
Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:14 am
I have been following this discussion with interest. Nothing to add so I won't.
Just a friendly reminder Rob... The WIX community goes well beyond the borders of the USA.
Mike
Col. Rohr wrote:Now I know that some of you are alot of you are going to disagree with me but hey this is America.
Just a friendly reminder Rob... The WIX community goes well beyond the borders of the USA.
Mike
Market Spike
Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:20 am
RECANT!!!!.....
After consulting my "financial advisor", Mr. B. Pocket, Left Cheek, 801
Denim Str....he has advised me that there has been a "sharp" SPIKE in
"warbird futures pricing", which discourages my aquisition of L-2
supplies at this time. When the B-25 "elevator pricing index" declines
then it may be time to resume aquisitions.
ps,
Rusty L-2 fuse and bits and O-435 Lyc.(barn-stock)... willing to trade for a decent Challenger II ultralite . Rudder alone is worth, (lets see..carry the one..),...rudder alone will probably bring $2000 in the W-bird Art Market.
Sorry guys....I've gone to the Dark Side...but at least I'll be flying!!!!
...I betcha I can mount a monofloat on that sucker... a BAR and a
coupla' grenades. Sell one to Homeland Security...have the Type-Certif
for "Border Interdiction Vehicle Observation"....the Challenger BIVO..
yea, thats the ticket...
After consulting my "financial advisor", Mr. B. Pocket, Left Cheek, 801
Denim Str....he has advised me that there has been a "sharp" SPIKE in
"warbird futures pricing", which discourages my aquisition of L-2
supplies at this time. When the B-25 "elevator pricing index" declines
then it may be time to resume aquisitions.
ps,
Rusty L-2 fuse and bits and O-435 Lyc.(barn-stock)... willing to trade for a decent Challenger II ultralite . Rudder alone is worth, (lets see..carry the one..),...rudder alone will probably bring $2000 in the W-bird Art Market.
Sorry guys....I've gone to the Dark Side...but at least I'll be flying!!!!
...I betcha I can mount a monofloat on that sucker... a BAR and a
coupla' grenades. Sell one to Homeland Security...have the Type-Certif
for "Border Interdiction Vehicle Observation"....the Challenger BIVO..
yea, thats the ticket...
Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:44 am
Rob, it is my pleasure to disagree with you. Carl and Tony operate a business. They need to pay for their own health insurance and pay their employee's retirement benefits. They can't be in the business of restoring warbirds for you to see at airshows unless they stay in business. They know exactly what the stuff is worth in the warbird market and what is rare and what isn't.Col. Rohr wrote:...first I disagree in what Carl and Tony did selling this show any Warbird part is just greedy in my thought process they could have donated the thing to any deserving 25 group.
Yes I can say the stuff that this show is Crap why I don't think I need to explain, and I sent them a rather blunt e-mail telling them that the show is destroying historical parts that could be used in preserving aircraft for are furture generations.
Now I know that some of you are alot of you are going to disagree with me but hey this is America.
Why would they give this stuff to a museum? Doug Champlin is very wealthy. Why didn't he GIVE his collection to the Seattle MOF? And how do you know that Bob Pond doesn't already own one of these tables?
If you are so interested, please PURCHASE one of these "artifacts" from Carl and Tony and donate it to whomever you please. I'm quite sure they didn't spend years buying B-25 inventories so they could give it all away.
Any yes, the show is crap, but I'm sure they binned your e-mail straight away. Better a coffee table than an ingot!
Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:12 am
bdk wrote: Better a coffee table than an ingot!
I for the most part agree with you with a caveat that very rare parts (ie a Stuka rudder or a Fw 190 wing should be spared or at least every effort to find it a home with suitable compensation of course.