Mr. McHenry to Pima?
Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:43 am
I received this update via another forum from Mr. Markgraf, the pilot of Mr. McHenry -
I've tried to contact Air Atlantique on several occasions for information on why they are moving the airplane and not wanting to enter into any sort of partnership with the CAF to keep the plane flying in the US since the UK will not allow it. I really don't want to see it go to Pima and I'm sad to see that Mr. Markgraf seems to believe that the efforts of the CAF members at Midland to keep the aircraft clean are worth mention as he stated that the plane is receiving "no care or upkeep".
I for one want to thank the CAF for being gracious enough for hosting the airplane for this long. I just wish Air Atlantique could have found it in their hearts to become a partner with the CAF instead of guaranteeing that the plane will never fly again.
It's time for a long overdue update & status report on Mr. McHenry.
Air Atlantique has asked me to take WL790 to Tucson, Arizona for static display at the Pima Air & Space Museum. I am sad to say that Pima is a non flying museum and if there are no major changes in the future this could be the last flight for a grand old airplane. I have visited Pima several times, they are an excellent museum and do a fine job of restoring and displaying the many aircraft they have, they even have a couple of airplanes I have flown in the past, that really makes me feel like an old guy! Their plan is to do an exterior restoration and display 790 with their other AWACS aircraft. The present situation has not been good for 790, it basically has been slowly dying in West Texas with no attention or upkeep, with that in mind I feel this move is best for the long term survival of the aircraft.
I am very disappointed to no longer be able to fly a unique airplane that has been hard work, fun, exciting at times and a privilege for me to operate. It also gave Aura and I the chance to make many fine new friends that we hope to stay in touch with and visit on trips to the UK.
Our current plan is for my crew & I, co-pilot Marty Martin, flight engineer Dwight Bales, Norman Thewell may also come, to go to Midland, Texas the second week of December to start the inspection for a FAA issued ferry permit, Ben Cox will come over to finish up and we hope to make the flight around Dec. 16 or 17. Of course this is all based on the weather, the FAA and the cooperation of WL790! As Pima is not based on an airport, we will fly into Davis Monthan Air Force Base, the "Bone Yard", take the fence down and be towed over to Pima. The flight should be just under 3 hours, from Midland over El Paso, Texas and into DMI, being on a FAA ferry permit we will only be able to carry essential crew with no passengers. I am trying to arrange photo coverage for our departure as well as the arrival at DMI and will send a full report with photos ASAP.
For information about Pima go to their web site at pimaair.org
I've tried to contact Air Atlantique on several occasions for information on why they are moving the airplane and not wanting to enter into any sort of partnership with the CAF to keep the plane flying in the US since the UK will not allow it. I really don't want to see it go to Pima and I'm sad to see that Mr. Markgraf seems to believe that the efforts of the CAF members at Midland to keep the aircraft clean are worth mention as he stated that the plane is receiving "no care or upkeep".
I for one want to thank the CAF for being gracious enough for hosting the airplane for this long. I just wish Air Atlantique could have found it in their hearts to become a partner with the CAF instead of guaranteeing that the plane will never fly again.
Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:16 am
Well, the airplane has stayed here in Midland for many years now. We have tried to put it in the hangar, when space permitted. Remember, it is NOT a CAF airplane, nor was it paying rent, so it did not get first priority for hangar priviledges. Mr. Markgraf is a spendid pilot and I personally get along with him just fine, but he has had a turbulent past with the CAF, so it doesn't surprise me even a little bit that the comments may sound a bit on the tearse side. However, I've been here in Midland just over three years and have only seen him here twice...both times to fly the airplane, not once to insure it's cleanliness or upkeep.
It's a shame that WL790 is destined to never fly again, but it was me who got Air Atlantique and Pima in touch with each other. Perhaps it's selfishness, but if the airplane was slated to never fly again, I personally wanted it to stay Stateside. Nothing against our British friends, of course, but perhaps someday, if the planets all lined up together, and the right person with the right money came along, there might just be a glimmer of hope that it could fly out of the Pima facility. I doubt that could happen in England, with their current rules about airplanes of this type.
Gary
It's a shame that WL790 is destined to never fly again, but it was me who got Air Atlantique and Pima in touch with each other. Perhaps it's selfishness, but if the airplane was slated to never fly again, I personally wanted it to stay Stateside. Nothing against our British friends, of course, but perhaps someday, if the planets all lined up together, and the right person with the right money came along, there might just be a glimmer of hope that it could fly out of the Pima facility. I doubt that could happen in England, with their current rules about airplanes of this type.
Gary
WL 790
Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:51 am
So just what is WL 790?
Re: WL 790
Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:19 am
Forgotten Field wrote:So just what is WL 790?
Gary
Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:21 am
Though it's sad to see that the Shackleton won't fly after the ferry flight, I can say that I am happy with the decision to bring it to Pima. It is true that if an arrangement was made to ever bring it back to flying shape, Pima is the best place for it. At least the climate will preserve it, and they take extremely good care of their assets.
You know, I can certainly understand the CAF point of view with the plane. Historic or not, you need to take care of your own first. If there were gobs of open hangars at Midland, not putting it inside would have been cruel... but the point is that there was no extra room at the inn and the plane had to go where it had to... If they were paying rent, that would be another story as well.
Care for a plane always comes at a price... people like Gary can't make a living by caring for planes in the hopes of a "free flight" that most owners dangle in front of them. Maintenance services are a premium and it really bugs me when people use the passion that mechanics and volunteers have for planes to guilt them into being used and abused for the "possible promise" of a flight. Our mechanics are a precious commodity and good ones need to be paid accordingly or else we risk losing the talent that keeps these planes in the air for us.
You know, I can certainly understand the CAF point of view with the plane. Historic or not, you need to take care of your own first. If there were gobs of open hangars at Midland, not putting it inside would have been cruel... but the point is that there was no extra room at the inn and the plane had to go where it had to... If they were paying rent, that would be another story as well.
Care for a plane always comes at a price... people like Gary can't make a living by caring for planes in the hopes of a "free flight" that most owners dangle in front of them. Maintenance services are a premium and it really bugs me when people use the passion that mechanics and volunteers have for planes to guilt them into being used and abused for the "possible promise" of a flight. Our mechanics are a precious commodity and good ones need to be paid accordingly or else we risk losing the talent that keeps these planes in the air for us.
what a shame
Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:31 am
At least she will be stored in a dry climate, nontheless I am still gutted that she will be grounded..... 
Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:50 pm
It seems to me that if Mr. Markham was disappointed in the CAF for not keeping the plane clean and properly maintained, then perhaps a crew from Air Atlantique should have been hired to do the job. Like Gary said, It was not a CAF plane. If it were, then it could have been put up for assignment and kept in flying condition. I thought the CAF did a commendable thing by giving it free ramp space for as long as it did. It was a win-win situation. The plane was stored and the CAF was able to display it. Pima does a great job with their museum and I'm sure it will be properly cared for. I guess I'll have to take a day off when it comes in to DM in Tucson,
Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:09 pm
It's a neat looking airplane. I'd prefer to see it go into the Hazy center...just wishful thinking...
Free ramp space?
Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:14 pm
Thanks for the ID and photo, Gary.
When a 501C3 that I was part of wished to get some ramp space from several large airports, we were basically told that the rent for such space was $1000.00 to $1200.00. This was for a similar sized airplane. Free ramp space was a good deal for him. Ryan, you are spot-on about volunteer maintenance crew. There aren't enough flight hours left in that airframe to pay for the volunteer work needed to keep it flying.
When a 501C3 that I was part of wished to get some ramp space from several large airports, we were basically told that the rent for such space was $1000.00 to $1200.00. This was for a similar sized airplane. Free ramp space was a good deal for him. Ryan, you are spot-on about volunteer maintenance crew. There aren't enough flight hours left in that airframe to pay for the volunteer work needed to keep it flying.
Her future
Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:34 pm
Just wondering if there is any chance of Pima ground running the Shackleton as that might help with her upkeep and fundraising?
Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:33 am
Just a couple of comments on Mr. McHenry from the peanut gallery...
The Shack was hosted by the CAF at no cost to Air Atlantique (see comments on $$ cost of ramp space, not to mention hangar space).
Keeping the aircraft "properly maintained" would have entailed a full-time maintenance guy. What Gary was able to do was, I believe, gratis on his and the CAF's part. With the only "permanent staff" being Gary and the "long-suffering" Mark having to take care of 927 and FiFi, plus the constant shifting of aircraft due to hosted events, I think would have been asking way too much.
Keeping the aircraft clean? Well, for one thing, there's not an EPA-approved wash area at Midland large enough to accomodate the -24 or -29, much less the Shack. And dust is a daily problem at Midland.
From earlier conversations, plus info from a couple of articles in FlyPast, both the engines and props on the Shack are very near their overhaul times. Since the cost of prepping, then flying it, back to the UK would be REALLY expensive (plus the fact that it wouldn't fly again there), finding a suitable home in the US where due care would be available makes sense.
Having a home a Pima, in conjunction with other Cold War platforms would also make sense. And Mr. Mc H is (if you haven't seen the interior) is on of the few COMPLETE examples of this generation of aircraft (Laso having been active with the RAF until 1981, I believe).
End of peanut gallery comments....
The Shack was hosted by the CAF at no cost to Air Atlantique (see comments on $$ cost of ramp space, not to mention hangar space).
Keeping the aircraft "properly maintained" would have entailed a full-time maintenance guy. What Gary was able to do was, I believe, gratis on his and the CAF's part. With the only "permanent staff" being Gary and the "long-suffering" Mark having to take care of 927 and FiFi, plus the constant shifting of aircraft due to hosted events, I think would have been asking way too much.
Keeping the aircraft clean? Well, for one thing, there's not an EPA-approved wash area at Midland large enough to accomodate the -24 or -29, much less the Shack. And dust is a daily problem at Midland.
From earlier conversations, plus info from a couple of articles in FlyPast, both the engines and props on the Shack are very near their overhaul times. Since the cost of prepping, then flying it, back to the UK would be REALLY expensive (plus the fact that it wouldn't fly again there), finding a suitable home in the US where due care would be available makes sense.
Having a home a Pima, in conjunction with other Cold War platforms would also make sense. And Mr. Mc H is (if you haven't seen the interior) is on of the few COMPLETE examples of this generation of aircraft (Laso having been active with the RAF until 1981, I believe).
End of peanut gallery comments....
Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:50 am
I had the good fortune to see the Shack fly at OSH years ago (how quickly time flys). Quite a unique a/c with a unique sound in the air.
At least it appears that it will fly into a good display museum for aviation enthusiasts to see in the future.
Can't fly 'em all, but at least we can try to save them.
At least it appears that it will fly into a good display museum for aviation enthusiasts to see in the future.
Can't fly 'em all, but at least we can try to save them.
Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:50 am
I had the good fortune to see the Shack fly at OSH years ago (how quickly time flys). Quite a unique a/c with a unique sound in the air.
At least it appears that it will fly into a good display museum for aviation enthusiasts to see in the future.
Can't fly 'em all, but at least we can try to save them.
At least it appears that it will fly into a good display museum for aviation enthusiasts to see in the future.
Can't fly 'em all, but at least we can try to save them.
Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:51 am
I had the good fortune to see the Shack fly at OSH years ago (how quickly time flys). Quite a unique a/c with a unique sound in the air.
At least it appears that it will fly into a good display museum for aviation enthusiasts to see in the future.
Can't fly 'em all, but at least we can try to save them.
At least it appears that it will fly into a good display museum for aviation enthusiasts to see in the future.
Can't fly 'em all, but at least we can try to save them.
Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:00 am
Gary,
Last winter you took a picture of it in the snow at Midland. Any chance you could post it again? It was a really nice shot...
Last winter you took a picture of it in the snow at Midland. Any chance you could post it again? It was a really nice shot...