Robin Olds

[Jack Cook]

Col Robin Olds CO 8th TFW

[tom d. friedman]

olds always had the classic rugged good looks that typifies fighter pilots

[Owen Miller]

I know Olds claimed only four kills in Vietnam. My understanding
is he was told if he claimed the fifth he would be withdrawn from
flying. Leading his men was more important than records. Does
anyone know if he ever made more kills? I have always wondered...

[Chicoartist]

Frank Olynyk, the "last word" on aerial credits according to the AFAA, shows Olds with 4 in Vietnam. A MiG-21 on 2 Jan 67; another MiG-21 on 4 May 67, and two MiG-17s on 20 May 67. His lifetime score stands at 17/0/1 (Confirmed Air/Probable Air/Damaged Air). His only 'damaged' claim, BTW, was for an Me 262 on 7 April 45.

Frank makes no mention of a 'possible' 5th victory - and Frank would have mentioned it if it were "possible" or even strongly rumored. In fact, Frank makes the comment, in regards to Olds' four in Vietnam, "If you think he wasn't looking for that fifth MiG ... "

Strictly my opinion, of course, and some may not like it, but I gotta agree with Frank. We know for a 'fac', as my relatives in south Louisiana would say, that some men (air and ground types) turned down 'gongs' (Purple Heart and the like, as the case may be) so they wouldn't have to rotate home prematurely, but my old fashioned 'faith' in the human animal tells me that I seriously doubt a man, any man, would brush aside the title of 'Ace' in a second war in the form of "Don't write up that last kill that would make me the only ace in WWII and Vietnam ..." just so he could continue to fly missions with his men.

I've met and chatted with Olds over the course of a couple of days, heard him speak to fighter pilot trainees (at IFF), and of course the record speaks for itself - he rightly deserves 'legend' status; he's the real deal if there ever was one, period. I've also spoken to LGEN Steve Croker, the then-Lt. pilot-backseater in F-4C 64-829 (829 sits today at the NMUSAF) for those last two MiGs. Croker even showed me the "Phantom Club" certificate, signed by Olds, that McDonnell-Douglas presented to all F-4 MiG killers. Croker had nothing but awe in his eyes (even as a 3-star general and 8AF/CC) when we talked about Olds ...

However, if you seriously believe that Olds 'passed' on no. 5 if he could have rightly claimed it, I've got some beachfront property, as they say ...

Wade

[Misterg97]

As a volunteer in the Modern Flight Gallery .... I walk by 829 many times throughout my shift ... and in doing so .... I find myself stopping by each and everytime to .... just take a close up look ....

[mustangdriver]

I was just there last weekend, and have to say that it is very special to see that F-4 in person.

[marine air]

I talked to a retired naval officer named Fred Vogt that had two Mig kills flying F-4's. One was confirmed and the other was "classified" because he was in an area we weren't supposed to be in. He said he thought eventually the information would be declasified and he would be given credit. Is there any chance that Olds had more kills, over areas we weren't supposed to be in, and may eventually get credited for?

[bdk]

olds always had the classic rugged good looks that typifies fighter pilots

My now isn't that a stereotype?! What about Jack's cousin Blaze (or was it Shock? Awe?).

[tom d. friedman]

i'd love to have 1 of those survival .38 pistols from that era like olds is wearing, but the dod demilled them by cutting them in 1/2. another great waste of fine technology.

[EDowning]

Tom Friedman wrote:

i'd love to have 1 of those survival .38 pistols from that era like olds is wearing, but the dod demilled them by cutting them in 1/2. another great waste of fine technology.

I carried that same pistol, 1983-1988 when I flew the AH series for the Army. It was a 4" Colt and was the single worst firing pistol I have ever shot. It is as hard to believe that the same manufacturer made that and the Python, as it is to believe that Christy Brinkley and Rosie O'Donnell are the same brand.

[tom d. friedman]

great reply!! very surprising!! but why was it such a sucko piece?? i'd only want one for my survival gear display, not a shooter.

[EDowning]

I don't know exactly, they had a trigger pull that felt like 20lbs and the barrels were so shot out you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I always carried my 6" Python with Pachmyr grips, but they made me keep it locked in the arms room to do so. I always kind of felt like if I got on the ground unexpectedly, after delivering a bunch of Hellfires and 2.75s, that I was unlikely to get a warm welcome.

Of that issued turd, we used to say it was 5 shots to scare 'em and one to finish yourself off if it didn't.

[Randy Haskin]

I always kind of felt like if I got on the ground unexpectedly, after delivering a bunch of Hellfires and 2.75s, that I was unlikely to get a warm welcome.

Of that issued turd, we used to say it was 5 shots to scare 'em and one to finish yourself off if it didn't.

I'm a bit of a gun enthusiast, and I've never been all that enamored with the M9 that I am issued currently. I own a 92FS personally, and it is certainly a well-built weapon that is great fun to plink with at the range. The 9x19 round in FMJ isn't exactly the best self-defense round out there, but it is effective enough to do the job. If I were allowed to, though, I would carry a Combat Commander in .45.

My philosophy as a fighter pilot with a sidearm has always been that it is for emergency DEFENSE only. No matter how many pistol-caliber bullets you have, if you suddenly become a foot soldier your job is to HIDE and wait for the cavalry to come get you.

There are very, very few situations in a combat zone that a sidearm can get you out of without making things significantly worse.

If you are hanging in the chute and as you descend you see badguys on their way to your landing site, "locking and loading" is tantamount to signing your own death warrant.

All your government asks of you if you should be captured is that you return with honor -- we are not Gary Powers on a top secret mission over Russia armed with cyanide pills in which we are expected to kill ourselves before being captured. Indeed, in some situations, there *are* things that can happen in enemy captivity that are worse than just death, but that depends a lot on where you are and who you are fighting.

In fact, exactly zero of the reports I've read from Vietnam and shootdowns since then involved downed pilots Rambo-ing it up after they hit the ground. If it didn't work for any of them, I'm not thinking that I'm going to try and press the issue and be the first.

So, in the two places I've been -- Iraq and Afghanistan -- I've never harbored any Rambo ideas about fighting my way out of badguy land with my pistol, no matter what make or what caliber.

[EDowning]

Randy Haskin wrote:

I'm a bit of a gun enthusiast, and I've never been all that enamored with the M9 that I am issued currently. I own a 92FS personally, and it is certainly a well-built weapon that is great fun to plink with at the range. The 9x19 round in FMJ isn't exactly the best self-defense round out there, but it is effective enough to do the job. If I were allowed to, though, I would carry a Combat Commander in .45.

My philosophy as a fighter pilot with a sidearm has always been that it is for emergency DEFENSE only. No matter how many pistol-caliber bullets you have, if you suddenly become a foot soldier your job is to HIDE and wait for the cavalry to come get you.

There are very, very few situations in a combat zone that a sidearm can get you out of without making things significantly worse.

If you are hanging in the chute and as you descend you see badguys on their way to your landing site, "locking and loading" is tantamount to signing your own death warrant.

All your government asks of you if you should be captured is that you return with honor -- we are not Gary Powers on a top secret mission over Russia armed with cyanide pills in which we are expected to kill ourselves before being captured. Indeed, in some situations, there *are* things that can happen in enemy captivity that are worse than just death, but that depends a lot on where you are and who you are fighting.

In fact, exactly zero of the reports I've read from Vietnam and shootdowns since then involved downed pilots Rambo-ing it up after they hit the ground. If it didn't work for any of them, I'm not thinking that I'm going to try and press the issue and be the first.

So, in the two places I've been -- Iraq and Afghanistan -- I've never harbored any Rambo ideas about fighting my way out of badguy land with my pistol, no matter what make or what caliber.

Amen! Before I went to Warrant Officer flight school and started flying the Cobra I was a sergeant in an SF capacity. Because I showed up in the unit with Master Jump wing, Ranger, Pathfinder tabs etc. a lot of the guys I flew with thought it was great to get paired with me "just in case". I let them believe what they wanted to about that, but the one thing I did know was that I if I suddenly had to revert to my old job, Ranger school and the others would be handy, but the multiple SERE schools I did at Fort Bragg would be what I counted on most. Funny how it's Survival, Evasion,Resistance and Escape, and Gun Battle (with side arm) is nowhere to be found in there. I carried my Python, because I already owned it, I lived in the BOQ, so they made me keep it in the arms room, and it was just as easy to issue it on alert, as that piece of issue junk.

I have a large collection of firearms as well. Commander is a great choice. I don't have one, but I have a Trophy Gold Cup that I shoot all the time. John Browning was a genius.

The "five to scare them and one for yourself in case it doesn't" was just a joke about the old issue revolver.

BTW, when I was in Group and in my go to "every school the military has" mode, I went to the Air Force FAC school, which at the time was 3 weeks at Sembach Air base in Germany. It was the only AF school I went to, and it was excellent, excellent training.

[Owen Miller]

Returning for a moment to the original subject...........


There was discussion here shortly after Gen. Olds' death that his
family may do something with an autobio that he's worked on.
Has anyone heard any more about that? That is one I'd surely
like to read.