Conflict On Wix
Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:54 pm
Someone ask why I had had been off WIX recently. First other things to do, also it being not flying season, less going on. But the other aspect is that it is not as interesting as before, and sometimes there seems to be a lot of conflict.
Old combat photos, current airshow or rebuilds are interesting, but personal stories, experiences, opinions, humor, and DISCUSSION are also.
To me a Discussion is where both sides are considered with the object of learning more about a topic, maybe reaching a truth that is somewhere in between the poles. It is not hostile and should be educational and/or enjoyable to all. And the reader tries to understand the point of the writer, not just try to find points to attack.
An Argument is where the sides don't care about opposing facts or finding a truth, rather each is just pushing their mantra to win, like a legal suit or election. It is by nature conflict and can be hostile. On WIX it can also be personal.
A WIX with only the facts without the personal element seems flat.
Old combat photos, current airshow or rebuilds are interesting, but personal stories, experiences, opinions, humor, and DISCUSSION are also.
To me a Discussion is where both sides are considered with the object of learning more about a topic, maybe reaching a truth that is somewhere in between the poles. It is not hostile and should be educational and/or enjoyable to all. And the reader tries to understand the point of the writer, not just try to find points to attack.
An Argument is where the sides don't care about opposing facts or finding a truth, rather each is just pushing their mantra to win, like a legal suit or election. It is by nature conflict and can be hostile. On WIX it can also be personal.
A WIX with only the facts without the personal element seems flat.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
discussion
Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:17 pm
An example of a discussion would be "Best Fighter"? I can certainly make a case for Spitfire, fought from day one when P-51 was only an idea, fought when the tide of the war in doubt, fought the the top enemy Aces, more produced and more versatile than 51., final versions superior in 3 or 4 of the top 5 categories. I could also make a case for the 51, came in and did the long range missions where the Spit was lacking range, fought to conclude the war, especially in the Pacific, a close 2nd to Spit in manuevers.
But one should be able to see the whole spectrum, and not take personal offense; a discussion, not an argument.
Some of the bigger issues, of larger importance and interest became an argument. Some people were so locked in their opinions that any opinion or open discussion was a danger to them, they resort to personal attacks or even threats.
It is hard for me to put much creditability in a a person who says their version is the only truth and by the way their faith in this credo is so weak that the idea should be closed to discussion. Sort of like a used car dealer who talks a good game, but there is no written warranty. I now see someone else on WIX who is the object of attacks. I'd much rather see it be an open forum for FRIENDLY discussion and humor among us.
But one should be able to see the whole spectrum, and not take personal offense; a discussion, not an argument.
Some of the bigger issues, of larger importance and interest became an argument. Some people were so locked in their opinions that any opinion or open discussion was a danger to them, they resort to personal attacks or even threats.
It is hard for me to put much creditability in a a person who says their version is the only truth and by the way their faith in this credo is so weak that the idea should be closed to discussion. Sort of like a used car dealer who talks a good game, but there is no written warranty. I now see someone else on WIX who is the object of attacks. I'd much rather see it be an open forum for FRIENDLY discussion and humor among us.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:28 pm
Bill,
I tend to lurk here more than post, however, I do agree with you that the tone has been changing on WIX and not for the better. You used to stir the pot a bit yourself once in a while and I read quite a few of your posts with a great deal of intrest even if I did not agree with them.
Regards, Keith
I tend to lurk here more than post, however, I do agree with you that the tone has been changing on WIX and not for the better. You used to stir the pot a bit yourself once in a while and I read quite a few of your posts with a great deal of intrest even if I did not agree with them.
Regards, Keith
Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:29 pm
Bill...IMWICHU. Maybe not in total agreement with the Spitfire thing, but with the "discussion" v. "argument" theory.
Mudge the agreeable
Mudge the agreeable
Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:30 pm
Hi Bill, personally I don't see too much of a problem here, I am a little concerned about Jack Cook's photos, even though I'm a firm believer in equality and fairness, .... and we've been through this one already in a post that has been pulled, probably for good reason, not because it was becoming hostile, (James K and I have fun with each other and I believe we respect each other as well) but because there really wasn't anything else to say on the matter. Jack Cook's photos do bring up many interesting conversations and discussions on the History of warbirds and I believe I can say that all of WIX is pleased for these discussions. I would also personally say that without Jack's, and others personal photos in the hangar, we lose out on a tremendous amount of valuable discussion. So, all this being said, even though posting photos in the hangar is in theory in violation of the hangar rules, well, in my opinion, it depends on the photos and what those photos contribute. If they contribute to robust conversation, debate, education, etc. .... then they should be posted in the hangar. As I have said before, most all of us here on WIX are well educated, mature, responsible and respectful people who enjoy each others contributions. Sometimes Bill, things get a little dry and bland, depending on so many different reasons. I would tend to agree with you Bill that lately WIX has been a little slow, but this creates more reasons for the imagination to take over in our postings. I'm trying to come up with interesting conversation here in the hangar, and I can pledge I will continue to try to post interesting questions for you all. As long as many of you guys keep it up as well, we'll all be just fine. I have held and will still hold a tremendous amount of faith in all the members of WIX that you will all continue to feed me with this necessary fix of WIX. hang in there all, it only gets better.
As for arguments and personal attacks because of any reason or no reason have NO place here on WIX or anywhere else. Dabate and agree to disagree, but personal attacks and combative behavior are simply a weakness of one's own self. I use a very simple approach to any negative situation and it's worked for me for many years ... "kill em with kindness"
I think some President once said .... "Ask not what your WIX can do for you, but what you can do for your WIX"
One last thing, if Scott had a location for stupid, uneducated, lack of warbird knowledge and outright un-interesting posts. Well, then you all would know where to find my posts, but so far, I'm getting away with them here ... haha
Now bring Jack's photos back.
As for arguments and personal attacks because of any reason or no reason have NO place here on WIX or anywhere else. Dabate and agree to disagree, but personal attacks and combative behavior are simply a weakness of one's own self. I use a very simple approach to any negative situation and it's worked for me for many years ... "kill em with kindness"
I think some President once said .... "Ask not what your WIX can do for you, but what you can do for your WIX"
One last thing, if Scott had a location for stupid, uneducated, lack of warbird knowledge and outright un-interesting posts. Well, then you all would know where to find my posts, but so far, I'm getting away with them here ... haha
Now bring Jack's photos back.
Last edited by Hellcat on Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:39 pm
I must agree w/ Bill. As the initiator of "Best Fighter" I wanted to foster a discussion like what happened in the hangar. Scott's got one going right now on Britain falling to the Nazis. I really did enjoy everyone's postings, just for the sheer size of opinions as to Best Fighter. Everyone was convincing and while I truly love the P-38 Lightning for its design effectiveness, etc. I am willing to listen to opinions on the Spit, Swallow Jug, , Corsair, P-51, Hellcat and any other radial or early/modern jet.
Just simply love warbirds flying. Have since I was a kid. My heart soars when I hear the melodic sound of them in flight at airshows. Like a kid in a candy store mentality. I'm slightly sad when I see them languishing as statics but am glad they are well preserved. I have the deepest respect for all preserving, flying and protecting our country (at any time in history). Wish I could.
My point, we all share a deep respect for these aircraft and the men and women who flew/Fly them....can we share that same respect for one another on the WIX. I'll go sing Koombaya now as I await the flying season. Bill, I will be in Colorado (get their once every 15 years) for the AFA graduation this year would love to see your Spitfire, maybe even take a flight. Price for such an endeavor?
, Corsair, P-51, Hellcat and any other radial or early/modern jet.
Just simply love warbirds flying. Have since I was a kid. My heart soars when I hear the melodic sound of them in flight at airshows. Like a kid in a candy store mentality. I'm slightly sad when I see them languishing as statics but am glad they are well preserved. I have the deepest respect for all preserving, flying and protecting our country (at any time in history). Wish I could.
My point, we all share a deep respect for these aircraft and the men and women who flew/Fly them....can we share that same respect for one another on the WIX. I'll go sing Koombaya now as I await the flying season. Bill, I will be in Colorado (get their once every 15 years) for the AFA graduation this year would love to see your Spitfire, maybe even take a flight. Price for such an endeavor?
Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:51 pm
Hellcat wrote:As for arguments and personal attacks because of any reason or no reason have NO place here on WIX or anywhere else.
Debate and agree to disagree, but personal attacks and combative behavior are simply a weakness of one's own self.
100% agree!
Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:02 pm
Glenn wrote: I'll go sing Koombaya now as I await the flying season. Bill, I will be in Colorado (get their once every 15 years) for the AFA graduation this year would love to see your Spitfire, maybe even take a flight. Price for such an endeavor?
Flying season is here!
Taken Saturday afternoon...
Gotta love TX!
Seriously, I agree with the sentiments here for the most part, though I tend to think strongly that there is a place in the hanger for photo posts - so long as they come with meaningful text. Jack's photos usually do!
Ryan
Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:07 pm
Ryan, she is a real beauty! Your a lucky man.
How deep in the heart of ...... are ya?
BTW If Fire ants at a picnic is bad? What is the appropriate Texan response to good?
How deep in the heart of ...... are ya?
BTW If Fire ants at a picnic is bad? What is the appropriate Texan response to good?
Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:16 pm
Glenn wrote:Ryan, she is a real beauty! Your a lucky man.
How deep in the heart of ...... are ya?
BTW If Fire ants at a picnic is bad? What is the appropriate Texan response to good?
San Antonio!
Ryan
Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:18 pm
Ironic, you want an example of what we seem to be talking about here? .... http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=20181
Geez!, but let me guess, I'm the one "out of line" ... Even I can get pushed at times. Anyone see a reason for this David fellow to post his remarks?
Geez!, but let me guess, I'm the one "out of line" ... Even I can get pushed at times. Anyone see a reason for this David fellow to post his remarks?
Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:34 pm
Hellcat wrote:Ironic, you want an example of what we seem to be talking about here? .... http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=20181
Geez!, but let me guess, I'm the one "out of line" ... Even I can get pushed at times. Anyone see a reason for this David fellow to post his remarks?
Hellcat,
I'd say cool your jets. David is a personal friend of mine and one of THE Pearl Harbor experts as far as I'm concerned. I don't think he meant anything at all by that comment - just pointed out a point of error or imprecision in the post - intended or not.
We can choose to have tough skin and take a point of correction, or keep all of these conflicts going by taking offense and flying off the wall with our posts.
Ryan
Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:16 pm
RyanShort1 wrote:Hellcat wrote:Ironic, you want an example of what we seem to be talking about here? .... http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=20181
Geez!, but let me guess, I'm the one "out of line" ... Even I can get pushed at times. Anyone see a reason for this David fellow to post his remarks?
Hellcat,
I'd say cool your jets. David is a personal friend of mine and one of THE Pearl Harbor experts as far as I'm concerned. I don't think he meant anything at all by that comment - just pointed out a point of error or imprecision in the post - intended or not.
We can choose to have tough skin and take a point of correction, or keep all of these conflicts going by taking offense and flying off the wall with our posts.
Ryan
Who's flying off the wall .... I'm as cool as can be. just don't piss me off with disrespectful bullsh*t ... re-read his posts. And I could care less if he's your friend. It was a hypothetical question that mean't no harm to anyone ... so tell your friend if he doesn't like the post to simply shut up and move on unless he wants to contribute respectfully.
Sorry to all other WIXers here, but this is exactly what really pisses me off. Like I'm a guy who comes here to piss people off? I don't think so, I respect all members here until you have the balls to confront me on something stupid and irrelevent. Don't tell me about History, especially Pearl Harbor history. I'm well aware of it. Christ I'm a history major as well. I should know something. I'm nice untill it's time NOT to be nice. re-read this kids posts and you decide who's being respectful or not, until then don't waste my time with your bullsh*t
Sorry Scott and the rest for the outburst, this isn't me, just reminds me of the crap I got on my username a long time ago.
As for arguments and personal attacks because of any reason or no reason have NO place here on WIX or anywhere else. Dabate and agree to disagree, but personal attacks and combative behavior are simply a weakness of one's own self. I use a very simple approach to any negative situation and it's worked for me for many years ... "kill em with kindness"
I'll go and do some work now and try to take my own advise ... again sorry folks
Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:41 pm
This last week is the most I have been on WIX for awhile. Most of the winter I haven't really checked in, plus the fact I kept getting kicked out of WIX from server problems. Agreed since last year argruments have been on a rise. I am kinda conserned about Jack Cook getting heat too. 
Anyway...not really a big deal. Just annoying.
Anyway...not really a big deal. Just annoying.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:43 pm
Hellcat, I'm sorry, but Ryan is right. It is not a case of "even" you can be pushed; you actually push pretty darn easy, and I can't figure out why you reacted to David's corrections/clarifications in the Pearl thread the way you did. Your posts in this thread "Don't tell me about History..." make you look like one of the people Bill is talking about, who know everything and have nothing to learn. I realize you're probably not that way and it's just hasty posting that makes you look so. Ryan's advice to cool off before posting is sound. But do keep posting, you have been bringing some good fresh energy to the board.
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