Japanese target aircraft in Australia??

[setter]

Hi all

A very long time ago I heard a story about some Japanese aircraft being put on pontoons and used as targets on a lake in Australia during WW11 - it was supposed to be either Lake Bogga or lake Victoria.

Anybody know if there is any truth to it?? as I said a very long timeago but it was a fairly reliable source.

Regards
John P

[HarvardIV]

Hi John:

Let me know what you find out about this..Are the lakes deep? Maybe they could be scanned..

[DaveM2]

John

Where are these aircraft supposed to have come from? . Very few aircraft were shot down intact in the Darwin raids....if any.

Dave

[setter]

Hi Dave

I don't know but I think they were rejects from the evaluation aircraft up here at Archerfield - The rumor was very strong and came from two sources which is why I am asking the question - on the other hand it may be just tyre kicking .

Regards
John P

[Browny]

Hi John,

If indeed they did take the time and effort to move the unused Japanese airframes from Archerfireld to the Murray (remember road transport between Brissy & Nth Western Victoria was pretty tough back in the 40's), I would tend to lean towards Lake Victoria as the likely last resting place.I understand that 2OTU used the lake as a target range.

Lake Boga was the Flying Boat ARD during the war and I have not seen reference to it incorporating an air to ground range.

Sounds like an interesting project to follow up.

Cheers

Browny

[setter]

Hi

Just had a couple of emails suggesting that this was supposed to have happened at Lake Victoria and a Zero at least was involved - The plot thickens ?

Any help with this would be appreciated - I will do what I can throught the AWM and the RAAF but I doubt if there are any official records.

Regards
John P

[Digger]

I believe I can add some detail to this story.
As posted on another topic in this forum, I have done alot of research into the wartime activities of 2OTU and its use of Lake Victoria which is in fact in NSW. What I did discover was there are a lot of official records that indicate all sorts of aircraft types did crash or were dumped into Lake Victoria during and immediately after the war. However, after my initial excitement about this apparent new discovery I spoke to many people who lived, operated or were somehow otherwise connected to Lake Victoria in NSW. This included several well respected collectors and researchers in the Mildura and Wentworth areas. Sometime in 2000 I was shown a photgraph of a Japanese zero that was 'believed' to be parked on the airstrip at 2OTU. Further inquiries indicated that this was more likely to have been at Sale / East Sale. More inquiries and additional checks with archives, war records and AWM indicated and then confirmed that many aircraft did in fact crash into Lake Victoria, near Sale in Victoria. Therefore we are probably talking about Lake Victoria in the state of Victoria which has over the years been confused with Lake Victoria in NSW, primarily I guess because 2OTU was at Mildura a short distance away across the border in Victoria. For a long time I tried to track down the remains of a Japanese aircraft believed to have been in the Mildura / Wentworth area only to discover, as I say, it was most likely disposed of near Sale somewhere. On a trip to Eastern Victoria in late 2001, I happened across a market and was instructed to stop (wife was with me) At this market I did purchase a small plate that has on it Japanese (?) writing and markings with what appears to be a propellor insignia. I must add, i was told the plate was removed from an old aircraft wreck by an old digger who lived in the area. I was given some details as to where this may have been but was advised it was along time ago and probably isn't there anymore. So to end my rantings I feel that recollections and stories have got the two lakes confused over the years.

Mr Dunn who had the original Museum in Mildura could probably confirm all this and add some further details to the origins of the photo I spoke of.
If anyone would like a copy of this plate I can scan it in and send it to them via email. I would like to know what it says and what its from.

cheers

Digger

[setter]

Hi All

See the thing about rumors is theres often substance to them - I am now led to believe that there is/was several Japanese target aircraft wrecks in Lake Victoria Victoria along with some Beauforts ect which crashed.

Very interesting and worth following up - does anybody know any historians in the area we could follow this up with.

On a seperate topic I believe several chaps recently got themselves arrested either in Victoria or SA pulling aircraft parts out of a lake without permission - anybody know any more about this one /

Regards
John P

[setter]

Hi Digger

Love to see a scan of this plate - it may be we can trace the aircraft from the details

My email address is
parkerj@launch.net.au

Regards
John P

[Digger]

I'll put my hands up to this, it was me, although I did not get arrested. This is a rumour started by the same group of land owners who objected our recovery proposal for WW2 RAAF airmen from lake Victoria, in NSW.

I did in fact recovery parts from a location not far from the lake but not in the lake as some would have you believe. I did this under permit from the appropriate authorities.

Once again the same group responsible for oposing the recovery have sought to discredit the recovery by spready such rumours. I think they are somewhat embarrased by all the exposure of their double standards.

cheers

Digger

[Digger]

Found this info on the link below

[i]A joint group with members from the US Navy, US Army Air Forces, Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), and Royal Navy was formed in Australia in 1942. Later, some US Navy personnel of the group were withdrawn to the United States where they formed a Technical Air Intelligence Unit (TAIU) at NAS Anacostia, near Washington, DC. The Anacostia TAIU was supported by other Navy air stations such as those at North Island, San Diego, California, and Patuxent River, Maryland.

In early 1943 the TAIU in Australia rebuilt a Mitsubishi A6M "Zeke", using parts of five different aircraft captured at Buna, New Guinea. The completed aircraft was test flown ; the flights included mock combat against a Spitfire V. It was concluded that the "Zeke" was superior to the Spitfire below 20,000 feet. In late 1943 the "Zeke" was shipped to the United States aboard the escort carrier USS "Copahee"; it went to Wright Field where it was flown and evaluated.

Other Japanese aircraft acquired by the TAIU in Australia included two "Oscars " and a Kawasaki Ki-61"Tony". The "Oscars" were test flown in Australia in March and April 1944; the "Tony" was shipped to NAS Anacostia later in 1944.[/i]

OK, so as I read it, the Tony ended up back in the US, so what happened to the rest???if you follow this link the information suggests more aircraft were evaluated by Australian and US authorities.

www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics ... hintel.htm

happy reading

Digger

[HarvardIV]

Hello Gentlemen:

I think it would be interesting if somebody scanned Lake Victoria, Victoria to see if anything remains of these planes.

One of my future goals after I get this Harvard done is to rebuild a Japanese plane maybe in collaboration with others WIXers, if any planes could be found.

Any one of you Aussies interested in scanning the lake?

Thanks,

Chris

[Digger]

Harvard IV

re lake Victoria crash data, email me re this subject.

cheers

Digger

[HarvardIV]

Digger:

Your email address isn't listed.

[setter]

Hi Digger

Thanks for confessing......But it wasn't you!!!!


I have now heard that two guys were arrested in South Aus for taking aircraft parts from a swamp/lake without a permit or permission and charges have been laid.

I would love to know what and where and I'm sure it will come out in the end.

Yes I am up for helping in scanning Lave Vic - how can we get into it!


Regards
John P