Question for you military types from a non-veteran

[Steve Nelson]

Hi All,

I know some of you Wixers have worked with Hollywood on occaision, so I thought someone here might have some info..

I was chatting with a coworker who's a vet. He mentioned that in every military movie, he notices there's always something incorrect about the uniform, insignia, or decorations. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that there's a law or regulation forbidding a 100% accurate portrayal of uniforms in movies..anybody know if that's true? Or is it just Hollywood's usual "Joe Sixpack won't know the difference" sloppiness?

SN

[O.P.]

It's just sloppiness. Or more likely, economic nessescity. "Mr Foote costs an a$$load of dough, lets get Bobby, he's an expert at "Axis and Allies".

Never heard of that "rule".

When I was in the Navy, you had to wear what they said, always.

When I was in the Army, out in the field, you wore what ever made you happy, as long as it was not something f**ked up.

I'm talking about boots, webbed gear, POW'S (excluding firearms). I've heard that in earlier days that nobody cared about POW'S either. (POW=privatley owned weapon, IE:pistol)

I don't think the best expert could get it right, out of a book, because line infantry units aren't book looking at any time in the field...

[Shay]

I notice inaccuracies all the time. There are a few movies that are the exceptions. Full Metal Jacket being one of them (I would expect no less with the Gunny on the set).

I'm not just talk'n ribbon in the incorrect order, it's the uniforms worn inproperly and haircuts in a lot of the low budget movies. Would it kill the actor to go and get High-and-Tight? Or atleast lose the surfer flop? A-Team was real bad about this. But buttonsmissed, epulets untucked, giglines all screwed up, bodytypes that are way outside the military's physical standards, etc, etc.

I agree it's just sloppyness. It would serve as a better example if the uniforms was properly worn and military grooming stardards were adhered to. But hey maybe that's just me


Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[Jack Cook]

What's funny is that Hot Shots did s much better job with the uniforms than Top Gun did Boy, that's sad

[gary1954]

Actually, it falls into the category of "impersonating" a soldier, or Officer...and like impersonating a police officer, is against the law. This leads the movie folks open to take some liberty with the uniform, so you will generally see an inaccurate uniform on the screen, I retired from the Military back in 94, and look at hollywood as just being hollywood....except for Catch 22......have fun at the movies, eat a lotta popcorn and enjoy.

[Jim MacDonald]

I Googled it & found the following:

Impersonating a Military Officer
Impersonating a military officer is a crime under 18 U.S.C. § 912, which states that is illegal for a person to falsely assumes or pretend to be an officer of any department of the United States and while doing so, either act as an officer or obtain any money because of it.

Violating section 912 can be punished with a fine, imprisonment for up to three years, or both.

Misuse of Military Medals
Misusing military medals is a crime covered by 18 U.S.C. § 704. Under this section, it is illegal for a person to knowingly wear any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of the armed forces except when that person is authorized to wear them.[9]

The punishment for violating section 704 is a fine, imprisonment for up to six months, or both.[10]

The articles that talked about people being arrested for IMPERSONATING were mainly people that were gaining money or access to events or in some way benifitting from their lies.

Just my opinion but...I think when it comes to movies that it's just laziness in doing the research. I don't think that any one would try to arrest an actor for portraying a military member in a movie, or for that matter arresting reenactors during air shows & battle reenactments. While they may be wearing the uniforms & insignia, they are not actually claiming to be something they're not.

Mac

[CAPFlyer]

Under the Stolen Valor Act of 2005, what is and isn't allowed was revised. However, the Medal of Honor and Presidental Medal of Freedom still have the same regulations as before that not even on screen can someone wear one as replicas are not allowed to be made of these awards and the medals are only given to the recipient themselves and are not to be sold.

Yes, I used Wikipedia for this, but it gives good references and citations -

Until late 2006, the Medal of Honor was the only service decoration singled out in federal law to protect it from being imitated or privately sold. The Stolen Valor Act of 2005, enacted December 20, 2006, extended some of these protections to other military awards as well.[38] Now, any false verbal, written or physical claim to an award or decoration authorized for wear by authorized military members or veterans is a federal felony.

All Medals of Honor are issued in the original only, by the Department of Defense, to a recipient. Misuse of the medal, including unauthorized manufacture or wear, is punishable by fine and imprisonment pursuant to (18 U.S.C. § 704(b)), which prescribes a harsher penalty than that for violations concerning other medals.[3] After the Army redesigned its medal in 1903, a patent was issued (United States Patent #D37,236) to legally prevent others from making the medal. When the patent expired, the Federal government enacted a law making it illegal to produce, wear, or distribute the Medal of Honor without proper authority. Violators of this law have been prosecuted. A number of veterans' organizations and private companies devote themselves to exposing those who falsely claim to have received the Medal of Honor.[39]

The links & Citations -

Stolen Valor Act of 2005 - http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-1998

18 USC 704(b) - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/704.html#b

[Robbie Roberts]

When it comes to military authenticity in movies, I've seen some really lousy examples, and some really great ones. And I rate "Kelly's Heroes" as one of the most authentic for equipment, vehicles, and uniforms... (there are a few mistakes, but not many!)

I have been frustrated with some movies so badly I switched them off because of the inaccuracy!

Of course my favorite hate when it comes to idiot actors, is the "mushroom head"- The guys who wear a military beret sideways, and/or "poofed up" which really looks stupid. (But then, to be fair, so do some foreign berets and current US berets, which are made too small, and look really stupid on their own! Best military beret, WWII British SAS large one looked real good with the uniforms...) before they throw a beret on an actor, they oughta show them how it should look- not like they are hiding half deflated balloons under them!

But then also appears the frustration of military dialogue in a movie: One of the most grating was "Stealth"- which I hated at the movies, and only watch under duress... The guys flying the planes were supposed to be US Navy. Every time they were referred to, they called them "Navy Pilots" And I am sure everyone here knows that a US Navy Pilot is on a ship, not an aircraft- Those guys are "Naval Aviators"!

Robbie

[dors]

My wife gets irritated with me because i have to point out aviation inaccuracies and mistakes in movies.

According to "Rescue Dawn", did you know that when a Skyraider crashes it becomes a T-6?

[Chief]

Steve,
When I was at Andrews AFB in 1973, I was sent TDY to Hollywood to be a technical advisor for a film. It was my responsibility to ensure everything was "Air Force Correct". I took along a copy of AF Reg 35-10 (which covered uniforms and personal grooming at that time). It was challenging to say the least.
When we interviewed actors I explained haircuts, sideburns, moustaches etc. They said they would show up on the set properly groomed because they were hungry for the part. Of course they didn't and I would take them off to the barber shop myself and tell the barber how to "clean them up.
For uniforms, ribbons, etc. I had a list of the sizes of the various actors and picked out the uniforms at the Western Costume complex in Hollywood. We dressed the actors on the set each day and I had to make certain they were in compliance with the USAF Regs. Fortunately the director always backed me up when I had confrontations with the actors.

John

[Robbie Roberts]

John-
What movie was that for?

Robbie

[tom d. friedman]

look at the movie / tv series m*a*s*h*...... long sideburns, froo froo hair etc, but a great movie / show

[Chief]

Robbie,
It was an Air Force movie. Aviation Safety for the 20th Century. We filmed it in a forest east of San Diego and on and around Norton AFB in San Bernadino California.
It's theme was how communication or lack thereof causes accidents.
Ever since this experience, I find myself focusing on mistakes in films, more so than focusing on the film story itself.

The bottom line is that the Hollywood types need to have a technical advisor that holds their feet to the fire to depict our military people accurately.
John

[b29flteng]

The most correct I recall in recent memory is the TV show Stargate. When the actors were wearing the Air Force "blues", it appears to be correct. But when I was in the Air Force (ANG) we all seemed to wear something that was incorrect just to see if we could get away with it, for instance an incorrect T-shirt, or funny colored socks, stupid stuff.

[JDK]

I was chatting with a coworker who's a vet. He mentioned that in every military movie, he notices there's always something incorrect about the uniform, insignia, or decorations. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that there's a law or regulation forbidding a 100% accurate portrayal of uniforms in movies..anybody know if that's true? Or is it just Hollywood's usual "Joe Sixpack won't know the difference" sloppiness?

No evidence of a 'rule' or guideline so far, despite some excellent posts.

My opinion is it's a myth, it's a classic bar room style statement - "Oh yeah; there's a this Hollywood rule that says we can't have a proper uniform on the soldiers." Why would 'Hollywood' want one? Does the US military jurisdiction extend onto film sets? I don't think so; it certainly doesn't extend onto film sets in the UK, Europe or Australasia.

As to 'sloppiness' the job of a film is never to represent history with 100% accuracy; it's a story. There will be all sorts of compromises, and a 100% accurate war film, like I understand the real thing, would be very, very tedious with moments of confusion and (hopefully if well done) abject fear. Hardly likely to make money. And that's the core fact. Films are about making money. How much you spend on 'getting it right' is a compromise against how much you make. WIXers here are happy to pay cash for films as awful as Pearl Harbor, so why bother trying for authenticity if even the hardcore aren't going to stay away?

Also what's 'accurate'? Both (for instance) Patton and Montgomery were 'improperly dressed' according to the uniform regs of their time, so representing them accurately isn't accurate to the rules. On more field level, OP's point is excellent. I vaguely recall someone lambasting Saving Private Ryan for someone wearing belts of Ammo, yet the military advisor was able to document, with photographs, that this had been done, that way, there, then.

There was an excellent article on the topic in History Today on the film advisor for the recent film (featuring the Dunkirk evacuation) Atonement. The inclusion of a black British soldier in the group of three was just one of the barely justifiable anachronisms there, IMHO.

Beginning, you may have to subscribe (free or pay) to view:

http://www.historytoday.com/MainArticle ... d=30251674

However, the Medal of Honor and Presidental Medal of Freedom still have the same regulations as before that not even on screen can someone wear one as replicas

I've not waded through the links, but I didn't see anything stating 'on screen' was out of the question. I may have missed something obvious.

However, while I don't know (or care) I bet there's several Medal of Honour award ceremonies been included in US made films over the years; anyone care to prove or disprove the film aspect?

Cheers,