"Red Tails" movie
Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:34 pm
It looks as if George Lucas' long rumored Tuskegee Airmen project is picking up momentum...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/17/tuskegee.airmen.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/17/tuskegee.airmen.ap/index.html
Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:52 pm
Lets hope ILM doesn't get the brunt of the work and instead we se real planes where they belong. In front of a big ole expensive camera! 
Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:55 pm
I agree. It is amazing what can be done with CGI, but let's face it, there is no match for seeing the real thing.
Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:17 pm
OK I am going to rant a little.
Wasn't there already a picture with the Tuskeege airmen? Why do another? Maybe focus on another group (4th, 325th, 356th etc. etc.) that deserves credit as well? Of course I understand what these heroes had to overcome just to fight for their country but in my opinion all the attention they get downplays what other airmen did during the war to the general public. Im not saying they should not be recognized but lets spread the coverage out a little.
Ive spoken to a few WW2 pilots that feel the same way. And please dont take this as racism of any sort.
*And on another note: Do we really need two P51B/Cs painted up as 322nd birds when we have so few B/Cs flying?????? I can think of about a hundred schemes that would look killer on a B/C*
Wasn't there already a picture with the Tuskeege airmen? Why do another? Maybe focus on another group (4th, 325th, 356th etc. etc.) that deserves credit as well? Of course I understand what these heroes had to overcome just to fight for their country but in my opinion all the attention they get downplays what other airmen did during the war to the general public. Im not saying they should not be recognized but lets spread the coverage out a little.
Ive spoken to a few WW2 pilots that feel the same way. And please dont take this as racism of any sort.
*And on another note: Do we really need two P51B/Cs painted up as 322nd birds when we have so few B/Cs flying?????? I can think of about a hundred schemes that would look killer on a B/C*
Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:26 pm
The HBO movie "was about 50 percent Hollywood, but it gave a good overview and got the word out. People all over the world saw it and it whetted their appetite to want to know more," Biggers said.
Lucas plans for the movie to be based on the historic record that brought the Tuskegee Airmen fame, drawn from their own accounts
Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:27 pm
Cripes A Mighty wrote:OK I am going to rant a little.
Wasn't there already a picture with the Tuskeege airmen?
Django wrote:The HBO movie "was about 50 percent Hollywood, but it gave a good overview and got the word out. People all over the world saw it and it whetted their appetite to want to know more," Biggers said.
Lucas plans for the movie to be based on the historic record that brought the Tuskegee Airmen fame, drawn from their own accounts
Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:31 pm
yeah I know, its not a bad movie. I actually have it in the drawer with all the other war flicks. I meant the "wasnt there already a picture Tuskeege airmen" comment to be sarcastic. 
Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:36 pm
I think Zemke's wolfpack deserves a movie too....
Stories
Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:44 pm
Some of this history needs a bigger piece of popular attention. Some stories need to be told and re-told. Stories which tell of people overcoming uncommon hurdles are especially important. How do you tell the history of any airmen in WWII without talking about the Tuskeegee Airmen? How do you tell the story of any soldier's in WWII without visiting the racism, Jim Crow, and all the elaborate procedures to make a fighting outfit out of those who were, in effect, social outcasts? I for one would like to see a film about the Black Soldiers who voluntarily took reductions in pay grade in the ETO to go into infantry combat, and who were among the first combat soldiers to actually integrate and live in the same barracks as white soldiers (the experience of which led to integration in 1948). When the integration occurred, it wasn't just a snap of the fingers of a politician and everything was okay.
There was a story of Lena Horne, who went to entertain at a German POW camp. The camp commandant seated all the German POW's in the front rows, Black guards in the rear. Lena Horne walked out onto the stage, saw the seating arrangements, stepped down from the stage walked past the Germans to where the first US soldiers were seated, and then began to sing.
Is some of this history overblown? Like all legends, some myths arise to confuse some of the facts. Is it over-popular? Maybe, but it asks questions which still need asking. Will it eclipse the balance of WWII history which is already in existence? I doubt it- there is too much bravery in the common experience of WWII for contemporary spin to diminish. The issue is, that WWII was a common experience, black, white, brown, yellow, green. No matter what your color, you deserve your due.
FYI, a friend who helps us out in the 14th Liaison Squadron just started an organization which portrays the ETO black soldiers. Please take a look. Very interesting stories. http://fifthplatoon.org
There was a story of Lena Horne, who went to entertain at a German POW camp. The camp commandant seated all the German POW's in the front rows, Black guards in the rear. Lena Horne walked out onto the stage, saw the seating arrangements, stepped down from the stage walked past the Germans to where the first US soldiers were seated, and then began to sing.
Is some of this history overblown? Like all legends, some myths arise to confuse some of the facts. Is it over-popular? Maybe, but it asks questions which still need asking. Will it eclipse the balance of WWII history which is already in existence? I doubt it- there is too much bravery in the common experience of WWII for contemporary spin to diminish. The issue is, that WWII was a common experience, black, white, brown, yellow, green. No matter what your color, you deserve your due.
FYI, a friend who helps us out in the 14th Liaison Squadron just started an organization which portrays the ETO black soldiers. Please take a look. Very interesting stories. http://fifthplatoon.org
Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:45 pm
Mosyt of the Tuskegee Airmen that I have met really don't have too much good to say about the HBO effort. Let's hope Luscasfilms does them justice.
Jerry
Jerry
Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:07 pm
Jerry O'Neill wrote:Mosyt of the Tuskegee Airmen that I have met really don't have too much good to say about the HBO effort. Let's hope Luscasfilms does them justice.
Jerry
I agree. I have the HBO film on DVD and it's pretty hokey at best. It's far from a true, accurate historical recount. I hope the Lucas film stays closer to the truth and it less "Hollywoodized".
Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:35 pm
Nice to hear Mr Lucas' take on the exploits of the 332nd (and the title "Red Tails" suggests that's the aspect of the Tuskegee Airmen story that will be dealt with here) may finally be coming together. I first heard about this project several years before the HBO TV-movie appeared, so it has been in Mr Lucas' plans a long time indeed. And hopefully some of the fudged, telescoped or fallacious aspects of the HBO film will be corrected:
*Mustangs instead of P-40s in Morocco...
*Lieutenant Glenn having gone north and joined the RCAF to fly Spits: it was nice of HBO to allow us Canucks to be smug, but if the RCAF had been willing to accept black fighter pilots at the time, there would have been no need for the 99th or the 332nd...all these gentlemen asked for was the chance to fly and fight, and if joining the RCAF would have let them achieve that, they'd have come north in droves.
That sort of thing...
Even before I'd heard of Mr Lucas' or HBO's projects I thought this was a wonderful subject for a film. Bits of it are "storyboarded" in my mind still. Not much of the HBO version matched my concept. It will be interesting to see whether my ideas line up or not with Mr Lucas'...
Oh, and I have to agree about both C-model Mustangs wearing 332FG livery--coincidental though that is. And, gorgeous though Mr Weeks' re-creation of Lt.Archer's airplane is...part of me does wish NX1204 were in her Ferrari-red Paul Mantz racer livery again...But as things are, with the CAF redtail soon to return to her element, Mr Lucas will have two camera-ready Cs that weren't even on the radar at the time of HBO's version. Which is a good thing. And the same story (more or less) being retold in another film 15 years later? Also a good thing IMO. Yes, the 56th or the 4th or the 49th or any group has a worthy story too; but at least Mr Lucas is paying tribute to some of the Greatest Generation at a time when we're losing them fast.
S.
*Mustangs instead of P-40s in Morocco...
*Lieutenant Glenn having gone north and joined the RCAF to fly Spits: it was nice of HBO to allow us Canucks to be smug, but if the RCAF had been willing to accept black fighter pilots at the time, there would have been no need for the 99th or the 332nd...all these gentlemen asked for was the chance to fly and fight, and if joining the RCAF would have let them achieve that, they'd have come north in droves.
That sort of thing...
Even before I'd heard of Mr Lucas' or HBO's projects I thought this was a wonderful subject for a film. Bits of it are "storyboarded" in my mind still. Not much of the HBO version matched my concept. It will be interesting to see whether my ideas line up or not with Mr Lucas'...
Oh, and I have to agree about both C-model Mustangs wearing 332FG livery--coincidental though that is. And, gorgeous though Mr Weeks' re-creation of Lt.Archer's airplane is...part of me does wish NX1204 were in her Ferrari-red Paul Mantz racer livery again...But as things are, with the CAF redtail soon to return to her element, Mr Lucas will have two camera-ready Cs that weren't even on the radar at the time of HBO's version. Which is a good thing. And the same story (more or less) being retold in another film 15 years later? Also a good thing IMO. Yes, the 56th or the 4th or the 49th or any group has a worthy story too; but at least Mr Lucas is paying tribute to some of the Greatest Generation at a time when we're losing them fast.
S.
Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:53 pm
According to Steve Hinton, the plan is to do all the flying shots with CGI, and no actual aeroplanes. I believe that they've recently taken Lucas and one or two others involved in the movie in the backseats of the Chino P-51Ds to 'try and get them to change their minds'!
Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:02 pm
Mike wrote:According to Steve Hinton, the plan is to do all the flying shots with CGI, and no actual aeroplanes. I believe that they've recently taken Lucas and one or two others involved in the movie in the backseats of the Chino P-51Ds to 'try and get them to change their minds'!
Lets hope so. I fear we will have another Flyboys on our hands.
Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:30 pm
Oh dear. Won't be worth watching...good as CGI is these days it will never be THAT good...More power to Steve Hinton et al in convincing Mr Lucas that a flying pic should actually feature some flying... 
Of course one could also hope that this was just a ploy by the film folks to goad Mr H into taking them flying in a P-51!
S.
Of course one could also hope that this was just a ploy by the film folks to goad Mr H into taking them flying in a P-51!
S.