Fornoff Bearcat(s) questions

[famvburg]

Just got a copy of Corky Meyer's & Steve Ginter's Naval Fighters Series book on the F8F Bearcat. It has a couple of pics of the Fornoffs' Bearcats & in the caption it states that they were red with a black stripe, bordered by yellow. OK, I'll go along with the black stripe, (I think I remember brown, tho.), but when I saw them at local airshows in the late '60s - early '70s, even after Bill's death when Corky flew a solo show a couple of times, I distinctly remember them being a copper color. I also seem to think I've seen a couple of color pics & the pics showing a copper color. Anyone have pics or remember the main color? The same caption mentions Bill being killed in a mid-air, (which, considering their head-to-head runs they'd make at each other at airshows, it wouldn't have surprised me! I can close my eyes & STILL see that part of their routine! but what ISTR hearing was his Bearcat had either an engine failure or structural failure of some sort, enroute to an airshow or home from an airshow. I was a little kid at that time ('69 or '70?) so I may have mis-heard that. Is the caption mistaken or me or a little of both? Thanks.

[Second Air Force]

I would call the color (from old magazine photos I have) kind of a light burgundy, but your copper idea may be close. I doubt that the color in my photos is terribly accurate, but they were sharp birds. It definitely was not plain old red, but seems to have lots of metallic content.

Scott

[Jerry O'Neill]

Bill was killed when the wing suffured structural failure over Rhode Island's Narragansett Bay during the Quonset Point Air Show. No mid-air unless it was with a bird.
Jerry

[GARY HILTON]

Ditto on the structural failure...I heard it was due to trying to punch thru a thunderstorm....??

[Matt Gunsch]

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/f8fregis ... n700a.html

This was taken not long after Champlin got the plane, and it is NOT a F8F, it is a G-58B, it was never built for the navy

[Robbie Stuart]

Here is a link to a good picture, http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribut ... /1412L.jpg & below is the accident report




NTSB Identification: NYC71FNA60
14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
Event occurred Saturday, June 05, 1971 in NO.KINGSTOWN, RI
Aircraft: GRUMMAN F8F-2, registration: N7700C

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA
F S M/N PURPOSE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3-1648 71/6/5 NO.KINGSTOWN,RI GRUMMAN F8F-2 CR- 1 0 0 MISCELLANEOUS COMMERCIAL, AGE 46, 7700
TIME - 1613 N7700C PX- 0 0 0 AIR SHOW/RACING TOTAL HOURS, UNK/NR IN
DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 TYPE, NOT INSTRUMENT
RATED.
NAME OF AIRPORT - QUONSET POINT NAS
DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION
NO.KINGSTOWN,RI LOCAL
TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION
AIRFRAME FAILURE: IN FLIGHT IN FLIGHT: LOW PASS
COLLISION WITH GROUND/WATER: UNCONTROLLED IN FLIGHT: UNCONTROLLED DESCENT
PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
AIRFRAME - WINGS: RIBS,STRINGER,CAP STRIPS
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - OVERLOAD FAILURE
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - SEPARATION IN FLIGHT
FIRE AFTER IMPACT
REMARKS- A/S APRX 350K.WNGMN RPRTD HVY BUFTNG,NEG 1-1/2,POS 6-1/2 G.UPPER CAP STRIP FATIGUED.
===============================================

Terrible loss.
Robbie

[GARY HILTON]

Robbie, thanks for setting it straight, indeed tragic for all.

[Dudley Henriques]

Just got a copy of Corky Meyer's & Steve Ginter's Naval Fighters Series book on the F8F Bearcat. It has a couple of pics of the Fornoffs' Bearcats & in the caption it states that they were red with a black stripe, bordered by yellow. OK, I'll go along with the black stripe, (I think I remember brown, tho.), but when I saw them at local airshows in the late '60s - early '70s, even after Bill's death when Corky flew a solo show a couple of times, I distinctly remember them being a copper color. I also seem to think I've seen a couple of color pics & the pics showing a copper color. Anyone have pics or remember the main color? The same caption mentions Bill being killed in a mid-air, (which, considering their head-to-head runs they'd make at each other at airshows, it wouldn't have surprised me! I can close my eyes & STILL see that part of their routine! but what ISTR hearing was his Bearcat had either an engine failure or structural failure of some sort, enroute to an airshow or home from an airshow. I was a little kid at that time ('69 or '70?) so I may have mis-heard that. Is the caption mistaken or me or a little of both? Thanks.

Both Cork and Bill were charter members of the IFPF.

Both Bill's airplane and Corkey's were painted alike. The base color was a metallic bronze (copper) with black and white trim. Bill also had painted on the cowl of his airplane "If you love me, don't leave me".

The accident was the same day as the Cape May race disaster. I was at the Cape when we got the word from Quonset Point.

Cork has always said that all he knew was that they were together exiting out of a maneuver. One second Bill was there, the next he was gone. It happened very fast. The word I have was that Bill probably hit some really bad air coming out and that there might have been a flaw in the main wing spar of Bill's airplane. The g estimate from the post crash metallurgy tests was extremely high on the wing.

There are a few pictures of both Bill's cat and Corkey's on the IFPF HISTORY web page. Just Google IFPF HISTORY and scan the photographs.

[Mark Clark]

I agree with Dudley as to the copper/bronze colors.They also had a Mustang painted in the same scheme.

[Dudley Henriques]

I agree with Dudley as to the copper/bronze colors.They also had a Mustang painted in the same scheme.

That's correct. Brian Beard would fly it to the shows for Bill.

[John Beyl]

The actual color was "Cadillac Bronze". The color was a dark, metallic copper brown. It wore original Grumman colors (Orange with brown and white trim colors) while it was owned and operated by Grumman. It wore the Fornhoff’s (Spelling?) Cadillac Bronze color until Bob Pond had the aircraft repainted in Navy colors 10 or 12 years ago (A shame in my opinion). Before it was repainted the name “Corky Fornhoff” was still very evident in ghost letters on the canopy rail. There’s a lot of history in that airplane and I’m proud to say I was responsible for its care and feeding for a number of years while it resided at POF East in Eden Prairie, MN.

This aircraft, and one other, were actually built out spare parts left at Grumman after the Bearcat production run was complete. Both were designated G58B and had the serial numbers 1251 and 1252 as I recall. It contained a lot of F8F1 parts and assemblies as well as the more up to date F8F2 parts. The aircraft remained at Grumman for many years being used as a "Parts runner" between the factory and the many Naval Air Stations around the country…A heck of a job but somebody had to do it!

Warbird Nerd…correct my feeble memory if I’m talking out my @ss!

John

[famvburg]

Thanks Dudley. That's pretty much what I recalled that Corky told my dad & others at the airport, probably the last airshow we had in which he flew here, maybe '71 or '72. I recalled he said he looked back & his dad wasn't there & he commented that he was thinking his dad was going to eat him alive for getting so far ahead of him & then he noticed the smoke. ISTR he had a part, a small part, that was part of what failed or maybe the part that failed. I hate it when normally informed sources print such erroneous info. Makes me wonder what else they really don't know.

Just got a copy of Corky Meyer's & Steve Ginter's Naval Fighters Series book on the F8F Bearcat. It has a couple of pics of the Fornoffs' Bearcats & in the caption it states that they were red with a black stripe, bordered by yellow. OK, I'll go along with the black stripe, (I think I remember brown, tho.), but when I saw them at local airshows in the late '60s - early '70s, even after Bill's death when Corky flew a solo show a couple of times, I distinctly remember them being a copper color. I also seem to think I've seen a couple of color pics & the pics showing a copper color. Anyone have pics or remember the main color? The same caption mentions Bill being killed in a mid-air, (which, considering their head-to-head runs they'd make at each other at airshows, it wouldn't have surprised me! I can close my eyes & STILL see that part of their routine! but what ISTR hearing was his Bearcat had either an engine failure or structural failure of some sort, enroute to an airshow or home from an airshow. I was a little kid at that time ('69 or '70?) so I may have mis-heard that. Is the caption mistaken or me or a little of both? Thanks.

Both Cork and Bill were charter members of the IFPF.

Both Bill's airplane and Corkey's were painted alike. The base color was a metallic bronze (copper) with black and white trim. Bill also had painted on the cowl of his airplane "If you love me, don't leave me".

The accident was the same day as the Cape May race disaster. I was at the Cape when we got the word from Quonset Point.

Cork has always said that all he knew was that they were together exiting out of a maneuver. One second Bill was there, the next he was gone. It happened very fast. The word I have was that Bill probably hit some really bad air coming out and that there might have been a flaw in the main wing spar of Bill's airplane. The g estimate from the post crash metallurgy tests was extremely high on the wing.

There are a few pictures of both Bill's cat and Corkey's on the IFPF HISTORY web page. Just Google IFPF HISTORY and scan the photographs.

[Dudley Henriques]

[quote="famvburg"]Thanks Dudley. That's pretty much what I recalled that Corky told my dad & others at the airport, probably the last airshow we had in which he flew here, maybe '71 or '72. I recalled he said he looked back & his dad wasn't there & he commented that he was thinking his dad was going to eat him alive for getting so far ahead of him & then he noticed the smoke. ISTR he had a part, a small part, that was part of what failed or maybe the part that failed. I hate it when normally informed sources print such erroneous info. Makes me wonder what else they really don't know.


I think if Bill didn't eat Corky alive the day Cork fired up the Bear, took off, and buzzed the car agency down in Houma while Bill was in a meeting, his chances of survival were pretty much ok ))))))))

[Jack Cook]

If I recall the Grumman parts Bearcat was built up for Roger Kahn who was a Grumman VP

[RickH]

Roger Wolf Kahn. He used to use it to visit Navy bases as a Grumman Tech Rep.

With all of Bob Pond's money you would think that he would have at least painted the G-58 in accurate Navy colors. It's a shame that the aircraft has its own unique history as the G-58 and the teaching museum that owns it chooses to dress it up as just another Bearcat.