Memphis Belle marking options

[David_Aiken]

Mark Pilkington did an excellent list of marking variations for the SWOOSE. In that same vein, I wonder which marking variation that the NMUSAF is doing on the "Memphis Belle"?

The BELLE went thru many tiny changes after she was selected for the movie. The words "Memphis Belle" is an overpaint over a previous marking...that seems to be the earliest difference.

The 15 May 1943 "Mission to Wilhemshaven" is billed in the movie as the BELLE's final mission...when that was the Number 24 mission. Major William Wyler logged three missions in the BELLE to make the movie. He must have selected Wilhelmshaven as "the one" with the right amount of combat acction for his audience. The final mission was a milk run to Lorient, France on 17 May 1943.

Uniquely, in the movie, the return from the "25th Mission" shows, at the port waist window, a large "S" with the lower part looking more like the tail of a snake... later photos reveal that this was modified into the total word "Sally". [IIRC, the B-17 currently flying in the BELLE markings has BOTH the "snake S" AND the word "Sally".]

The BELLE began to change. AFTER the King and Queen of England visited the BELLE on 25 May 1943 and before the 7 June 1943 photos, Private Charles F Busa and Sgt AH Zarder added each crew name at their individual position. The photos made on 7 June showed the start of marking changes.

The 9 June 1943 ceremony at Bovington, near London, delivered orders to send the BELLE on a War Bond tour as her "26th Mission". More changes are seen.

The "welcome home" photos made in Washington DC on 16 June 1943 showed even more marking additions.

Thus my question...which point in that 15 May to 16 June time frame has the NMUSAF selected to 'freeze' for the viewing public?

Cheers,
David Aiken

[Jack Cook]

An additional question would be since Tony Nastal actually only flew 1 mission on the Belle and that was the last milk run mission. Who actually flew onboard when Wyler was making his movie? I think it would be very interesting to see a breakdown of what crewmen actually flew on her for each particular mission. Even Bob Morgan didn't get 25 on the Belle. Did any of the warbond crew get 25 mission on her??

[mustangdriver]

THe Belle will be restored to how she looked on her 23-25th missions. THis is the time period with the mose amount of documentation.

[David_Aiken]

THe Belle will be restored to how she looked on her 23-25th missions. THis is the time period with the mose amount of documentation.

Ah, the movie film is the sole documentation for how she looked on her 23-25 mission... thus none of the still photos cited above are to be used?

Of interest, the first B-17 takeoff in the movie (not the 1990 film) is a 7PM photo angle of the BELLE's vertical surface before the vertical fin was repainted, and the serial was restenciled in another spot on the fin.
TIA,
David

[mustangdriver]

The movie is not the only documentation. THe museum has gather many photos from many sources including the archives as well as veterans, and the Memphis Belle crew families. The 23rd and mission time frame was chosen because that it what it looked like for most of it's combat career according to Morgan. It is also the time frame that it would look most like the average 8th AF B-17. After the completion of the mission and before the stateside tour, a stencil job of all of the crew was applied to the aircraft back by the door, and then on the tail. As far as I know, this will not be present on the restoration as it was done later.

[David_Aiken]

THe museum has gather many photos from many sources including the archives as well as veterans, and the Memphis Belle crew families.

Alas, these still photos were made during the 15 May to 16 June changes cited (far above).

Hope this helps your understanding of the problem, thus my question of which DATE in that 15 May to 16 June time frame has the NMUSAF selected to 'freeze' for the viewing public?
Thanks for your patience,
Cheers,
David

[Jerry O'Neill]

Why don't they paint it just like the 1990 film B-17?
It'll stave off all the questions from the younger generation on why the plane doesn't look like it did in the Fictional "Hollywood" movie!
Jerry

PS: I actually like the idea of the 23-25th mission markings. It places it in context with it's combat history!

[mustangdriver]

She is going to be marked as she was on May 17th 1943.

[Jack Cook]

Why don't they paint it just like the 1990 film B-17?
It'll stave off all the questions from the younger generation on why the plane doesn't look like it did in the Fictional "Hollywood" movie!

They could get sued by the "Movie Memphis Belle"!

[David_Aiken]

Why don't they paint it just like the 1990 film B-17?
It'll stave off all the questions from the younger generation on why the plane doesn't look like it did in the Fictional "Hollywood" movie!
Jerry

PS: I actually like the idea of the 23-25th mission markings. It places it in context with it's combat history!

Then comes the photo of the crew chief painting the '25th' mission marker on the port nose...then later wiping it off the plane! lol

Cheers,
David

[David_Aiken]

She is going to be marked as she was on May 17th 1943.

Ahh, that means the port side vertical stab had the dark green? backward 'L' blotch just below the serial...not the repainted tail with the serial higher on the tail... hummm. Thanks for the info.

Cheers,
David

[mustangdriver]

I am not 100% sure where all of the splotches go at this point. The museum had this interesting three view preentation of all the minor changes through the years. It was pretty interesting. If you have an suggestions, I would love to pass them on though. I don't care whose toes I step on to ensure the Belle is as correct as can be. In my opinion my involvment withthe Belle and later the Swoose will be the most important thing I ever get to do in my life. Sounds dumb, I know.

[David_Aiken]

The museum had this interesting three view preentation of all the minor changes through the years. It was pretty interesting.

Aloha Mustang, send me an e-mail address...

In 1979, I was stuck between planes in Memphis reading the latest AIR COMBAT 1939-1945 mag which detailed a quest by a dude, working on the BELLE, seeking more about the plane. He cited the plane's location on the airport and as I stood up and looked thru a window, there she was!

I placed my dime in the pay phone and spoke with the Doctor...then continued my flight to Maxwell AFB, AL to the USAF archives.

With the help of a friend working in Wash DC, I was able to obtain Memphis Belle photos and made an detailed markings analysis... I shared that with the Memphis, TN folk and last year with the NMUSAF...yet I have not understood the date selected for the markings, thus my hope that this had been fixed. Perhaps or perhaps not?
Cheers,
David

[David_Aiken]

The swimsuit shows quite well in the Wm Wyler Movie...and you can readily see in the film that the suit is PASTEL above the waist and PURE color below...on both sides.

This phenomina has never been pointed out in any decal or illustration of the BELLE. You can see this in the photo below (thanks, Jack)...if you know to look for it:

[Oscar Duck]

I want her painted as she was when my late father-in-law flew her with 815th BS 483rd BG as a "trainer"......