Only Great Escape survivor to fly an ME-109 in the BOB movie
Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:23 pm
Wing Commander Tim Thomas AFC , OBE. -the only survivor of the Stalg Luft 111 ''Great Escape '' at Sagan to play a Luftwaffe pilot and actually fly a ME-109 Fighter in the 1969 ''Battle of Britain'' movie- has died aged 87.
TIM Thomas was captured in thye 1943 Great Escape as he exited the tunnel entrance and was spared by the guards.
He was liberated at the end of thew war but in 1969 the producers offered him the role of a Luftwaffe pilot in the movie ''TheBattle of Britain'' starring Sir Larry Olivier, Kenneth More and loads of other big screen names and Tim not only played a Luftwaffe piolt but got to fly one of the Spanish owned ME-109'S on screen in the acton sequences on screen.
TIM Thomas was captured in thye 1943 Great Escape as he exited the tunnel entrance and was spared by the guards.
He was liberated at the end of thew war but in 1969 the producers offered him the role of a Luftwaffe pilot in the movie ''TheBattle of Britain'' starring Sir Larry Olivier, Kenneth More and loads of other big screen names and Tim not only played a Luftwaffe piolt but got to fly one of the Spanish owned ME-109'S on screen in the acton sequences on screen.
Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:15 pm
A few more words about him, since he was the LAST survivor of the "Great Escape"
Mark H
Wing Commander W E 'Tim' Thomas, formerly of Croscombe
Wing Commander W E "Tim" Thomas OBE, AFC, died recently in Portugal at the age of 87, following a long period of illness.
He was born in Wells and brought up in Croscombe, where his father ran a garage (many in Croscombe will remember an old petrol pump which stood for there for years – it was installed by Tim's father). After his father died in the 1930s, the family (mother and five children) moved to Weston-super-Mare.
"Tim" Thomas's parents first took him flying when he was just five years old. He last took the controls of an aircraft 80 years later in a birthday-present flight over the Algarve. In the years between he flew many types of aircraft, ranging from bi-plane Tiger Moths to supersonic Javelins and Lightnings. He was at the controls of a Blenheim 1 light bomber in 1941 when he was shot down over Holland and crashed into the sea. After his capture and treatment for severe injuries, he was held for well over three years in the Stalag Luft III prisoner of war camp, where he took part in the tunnelling operations made famous in The Great Escape.
Long after the Second World War, it was as the commanding officer of RAF Labuan, in Malaysia, during the Indonesian confrontation period, that he was awarded the OBE. Malaysia was one of several overseas postings, his last being in Germany, where he met his wife-to-be, Sybille. On retiring from the RAF in 1967 he joined the production of The Battle of Britain, flying German Heinkels and Messerschmitts during five months of filming in Spain.
Following his subsequent 15-year career in management consultancy in Germany and Saudi Arabia, Wing Commander and Mrs Thomas came to live permanently in the Algarve in 1985, although Tim continued his association with the British forces, engaging in charity work on behalf of disadvantaged and disabled ex-service personnel and their families.
Mark H
Wing Commander W E 'Tim' Thomas, formerly of Croscombe
Wing Commander W E "Tim" Thomas OBE, AFC, died recently in Portugal at the age of 87, following a long period of illness.
He was born in Wells and brought up in Croscombe, where his father ran a garage (many in Croscombe will remember an old petrol pump which stood for there for years – it was installed by Tim's father). After his father died in the 1930s, the family (mother and five children) moved to Weston-super-Mare.
"Tim" Thomas's parents first took him flying when he was just five years old. He last took the controls of an aircraft 80 years later in a birthday-present flight over the Algarve. In the years between he flew many types of aircraft, ranging from bi-plane Tiger Moths to supersonic Javelins and Lightnings. He was at the controls of a Blenheim 1 light bomber in 1941 when he was shot down over Holland and crashed into the sea. After his capture and treatment for severe injuries, he was held for well over three years in the Stalag Luft III prisoner of war camp, where he took part in the tunnelling operations made famous in The Great Escape.
Long after the Second World War, it was as the commanding officer of RAF Labuan, in Malaysia, during the Indonesian confrontation period, that he was awarded the OBE. Malaysia was one of several overseas postings, his last being in Germany, where he met his wife-to-be, Sybille. On retiring from the RAF in 1967 he joined the production of The Battle of Britain, flying German Heinkels and Messerschmitts during five months of filming in Spain.
Following his subsequent 15-year career in management consultancy in Germany and Saudi Arabia, Wing Commander and Mrs Thomas came to live permanently in the Algarve in 1985, although Tim continued his association with the British forces, engaging in charity work on behalf of disadvantaged and disabled ex-service personnel and their families.
escape
Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:17 pm
That is an amazing story. I would loved to have met him and asked him about the escape. I am sort of surprised he was willing to fly a 109, why didn't they give him a Spitfire for the movie?
Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:29 am
The Blenheim story is a mistake - It was a Havoc
Havoc I serial AW404 of 23 Sqn, Ford/Sussex. Target: Intruder airfield Gilze Rijen, The Netherlands. Hit by Flak near Haamstede. Part of the crew baled out. Aircraft crash landed on a sand bank SW of the Dutch island Schouwen, 01.23 hrs. Killed: F/Sgt W.D. McADAM #519802 buried Adegem WC (Belgium), first buried Zeebrugge (Belgium). Sgt R. BRYER #913425 Runnymede Panel 40.
F/Lt William Edward Thomas #60824 POW
Havoc I serial AW404 of 23 Sqn, Ford/Sussex. Target: Intruder airfield Gilze Rijen, The Netherlands. Hit by Flak near Haamstede. Part of the crew baled out. Aircraft crash landed on a sand bank SW of the Dutch island Schouwen, 01.23 hrs. Killed: F/Sgt W.D. McADAM #519802 buried Adegem WC (Belgium), first buried Zeebrugge (Belgium). Sgt R. BRYER #913425 Runnymede Panel 40.
F/Lt William Edward Thomas #60824 POW
Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:17 am
The story of 'Great Escaper' Wing Commander William 'Tim' Thomas being an active Me109 Buchon pilot in the Battle of Britain film is widely reported in the many obits, worldwide.
He does not however appear on any of the standard pilot/aircraft mustering sheets that I have for both the British and German aircraft. Indeed for the German aircraft only 'Connie' Edwards and Viv Bellamy are listed along with 16 Spanish pilots.
Notwithstanding any insurance and safety considerations I am wondering if over the years this has got slightly romanticised. As with a number of the film crew, it is very plausible that 'special visitors' and technical advisers to the film got to ride in the dual Me109 Buchon.
Can anybody confirm?
PeterA
Dual Buchon. Bob Fletcher/Late Robert Rudhall Collection.
He does not however appear on any of the standard pilot/aircraft mustering sheets that I have for both the British and German aircraft. Indeed for the German aircraft only 'Connie' Edwards and Viv Bellamy are listed along with 16 Spanish pilots.
Notwithstanding any insurance and safety considerations I am wondering if over the years this has got slightly romanticised. As with a number of the film crew, it is very plausible that 'special visitors' and technical advisers to the film got to ride in the dual Me109 Buchon.
Can anybody confirm?
PeterA
Dual Buchon. Bob Fletcher/Late Robert Rudhall Collection.
Last edited by PeterA on Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:08 pm
Peter,
Do you have any other photos of the Buchons during filming? I'm specifically looking for one with a White III Gruppe double Wavy Bar.
Intersting to see the buchon in the photo has a tall tail but they didnt utilise the tall tail wheel. Like my Father says, when the 109 flew for the germans it was the Augsburg Eagle but when it flew with the spanish it was known as the pigeon.
I suppose that Late tail (the tail looks a bit off somehow) Buchon now resides with Mr Edwards?
Do you have any other photos of the Buchons during filming? I'm specifically looking for one with a White III Gruppe double Wavy Bar.
Intersting to see the buchon in the photo has a tall tail but they didnt utilise the tall tail wheel. Like my Father says, when the 109 flew for the germans it was the Augsburg Eagle but when it flew with the spanish it was known as the pigeon.
I suppose that Late tail (the tail looks a bit off somehow) Buchon now resides with Mr Edwards?
Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:48 am
Augsburgeagle wrote:Peter,
Do you have any other photos of the Buchons during filming? I'm specifically looking for one with a White III Gruppe double Wavy Bar.
Intersting to see the buchon in the photo has a tall tail but they didnt utilise the tall tail wheel. Like my Father says, when the 109 flew for the germans it was the Augsburg Eagle but when it flew with the spanish it was known as the pigeon.
I suppose that Late tail (the tail looks a bit off somehow) Buchon now resides with Mr Edwards?
Well I guess I have amassed several thousand images of the BoB film over the last forty years, but perhaps more focused on the Spitfires than the Buchons.
Would this shot fit the bill?
Image form the late Robert Rudhall collection.
Yes, 'Connie' Edwards still has the dual Buchon at his place in Texas.
PeterA
Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:35 am
Possibly Peter,
Where many marked up as III gruppe or was it just one? If that is the only one that was marked as such then its the winner, would love to see some more photos if thats possible, I'm amazed that there are that many photos from the film avaliable!
Cheers
Matt
Where many marked up as III gruppe or was it just one? If that is the only one that was marked as such then its the winner, would love to see some more photos if thats possible, I'm amazed that there are that many photos from the film avaliable!
Cheers
Matt
Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:53 am
Augsburgeagle wrote:Possibly Peter,
Where many marked up as III gruppe or was it just one? If that is the only one that was marked as such then its the winner, would love to see some more photos if thats possible, I'm amazed that there are that many photos from the film avaliable!Cheers
Matt
Matt,
It has been a long and dedicated search from many many sources.
I will have shots of other Buchons in this unit, probably b/w. It would not have been a singleton.
PeterA
Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:06 am
It's good to hear that there is so much material avaliable even if finding it has been hard work! Making the film must have been a very exciting experience , none of the CGI BS we get today, real people doing things the hard way i've got alot of respect for that.
Unfortunately on closer inspection that airframe isn't the one I'm looking for, close but no cigar, the one i'm after doesn't appear to have red around the lower foot well
Unfortunately on closer inspection that airframe isn't the one I'm looking for, close but no cigar, the one i'm after doesn't appear to have red around the lower foot well
Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:15 am
Augsburgeagle wrote:It's good to hear that there is so much material avaliable even if finding it has been hard work! Making the film must have been a very exciting experience , none of the CGI BS we get today, real people doing things the hard way i've got alot of respect for that.
Unfortunately on closer inspection that airframe isn't the one I'm looking for, close but no cigar, the one i'm after doesn't appear to have red around the lower foot well
No problem - I do not smoke.
What exactly are you looking for?
These aircraft were re-liveried with different markings almost on a daily basis. Paintwork was repaired and the studio people kept on top of the artificial 'distressing' that in the course of the filming became the real thing.
Peter
Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:25 am
Ah, that might be the problem then, I'm just trying to find a photo taken during filming of a specific airframe that I remember seeing, interstingly on the one I'm looking for, where the BOB paint was coming away you could see the outline of the spanish black flash down from the stubs to the back of the canopy. I can imagine the Buchon is a real stinker once your in it, the direct cockpit ventilation flap is directly downwind from the stubs! CO anyone?
Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:35 am
Augsburgeagle wrote:Ah, that might be the problem then, I'm just trying to find a photo taken during filming of a specific airframe that I remember seeing, interstingly on the one I'm looking for, where the BOB paint was coming away you could see the outline of the spanish black flash down from the stubs to the back of the canopy. I can imagine the Buchon is a real stinker once your in it, the direct cockpit ventilation flap is directly downwind from the stubs! CO anyone?
What was the location? Country, UK, Spain?
PeterA
Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:48 am
Augsburgeagle wrote:It's good to hear that there is so much material avaliable even if finding it has been hard work!l
It certainly was, but once started it 'grewed'.
I was with Robert Rudhall at the launch of his first BoB film book when a chap came up with (IIRC) a big attaché case full of a couple of albums of previously unseen colour film photos. This was a major contributor, I think, to his second book - 'The Album'!
Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:25 am
Augsburgeagle wrote: I'm just trying to find a photo taken during filming of a specific airframe that I remember seeing, interstingly on the one I'm looking for, where the BOB paint was coming away you could see the outline of the spanish black flash down from the stubs to the back of the canopy.
Matt,
I presume this is the Spanish stripe you are referring to. Here early on in film preparation , a Buchon at Henlow being 'plastered' to make moulds for the GRP replicas.
I have shots of whites 2, 3, 8, 9, plus a group of three in double digit teens partially obscured by covers and all with the III Gruppe marking. All are repainted with white spinners and all were taken at Duxford.
I think it is doubtful Spanish stripes would be 'leeching' through on aircraft actively engaged on filming, for continuity reasons.
This aircraft that you are referring to, was this a post film sale to the US?
PeterA