Ok here's my "WHAT IF"

[Shay]

Obvisously this is fictional of course so bare with me:

Suppose you are wealthy person banking rolling research in Quantum Mechanics, basically time travel. Also of course as a person with unlimited funds you have a knack for Warbird aircraft. In particular WW2 aircraft. Well one day through this research the ability to travel back in time is acheived. While mostly this done for the sake studying history, you have the need to expand your collection of warbirds.

Here's the deal. If you could travel back in time and collect 10 of some of the most historically significant aircraft (Specific) during WW2, which 10 would you retrieve? Can be any theatre, any point in the war, or any nation.

I'm still thinking about my list but I wanted to hear from your guys. Remember "Historically Significant".

Shay

[oz rb fan]

shay great idea
1 westland whirwind-raf's first twin engined single seat fighter
2 ki 46-2 dinah- if nothing else it looks awsome
3 ca15 possibly the last all new piston engined fighter to start flight testing
4 ki84 we need more than one [one of the best jaaf fighters]
5 ki100 we still need more than one [the other one see above]
6 ki45 one of the best twin fighters
7 a5m claude the first shipbord monoplane fighter
8 a6m8 to see what hirokoshi hoped for the zero
9 regganie 2005 the best italy had
10 db7b to only see an early model boston fly
they not be the most historaclly significant but this is what i would want
paul

[TimAPNY]

F6F-5 Mini-III
Foss’s F4F
Bong’s P-38
Ivan Kozhedub A/C (one of the Russian Types)
Erich Hartmann's Bf-109
Hiroyoshi Nishizawa A6M5
P-51B Shangri la
F4U-2 212 From VMFN-??
Dolittle’s B- 25

I'm trying to think of # 10. Did the British Keep Ace scores like the US?
Maybe the A/C that shot down the first German A/C over England during the Battle of Britian.

[Dan K]

I like your list, Tim; but it's a little heavy on the fighter side.

Might I suggest for #10 the 93rd BG B-24 "He11's Wench"--the only aircraft in USAAF/USAF history (at least to my knowledge) in which two crew members (Baker & Jerstad) earned the MOH on the same mission (8/1/43 raid to Ploesti).

I am assuming, however, that the destruction of the airplane is inconsequential (with our time machine we are able to recover the aircraft before it impacts earth, right?)

Last edited by Dan K on Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

[Firebird]

Not an easy one this.......

But my 10 would be,

1.Heinz Bar’s special 6 cannon Me262 abandoned at Salzberg when he surrendered JV44.

2.One of Erich Hartmann’s Me109’s.

3.That last surviving original Fokker Dr.1 that was in the Berlin Museum until 1944.

4.The last DH Hornet to fly in the RAF.

5.Any one of the Mosquitos that took part in the Amiens prison raid.

6.Guy Gibson’s Dams raid Lancaster, that incredibly was still sitting abandoned in a corner of RAF Scampton until finally being scrapped in 1947…!!!!!!!

7.K5054 – the prototype Spitfire, destroyed in a crash the day before WW2 started.

8.The P-40 of Lt.George Welch when downing 4 Japanese aircraft during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

9.Any C-47 that dropped the first wave of paratroopers on the eve of D-Day.

10.One of Gabby Gabreski’s 56th FG P-47’s.

[wendovertom]

I'd add -

1. B-24 "The Sharon D" - MOH Leon Vance Jr.'s liberator
2. B-29 "The Great Artiste" - the only B-29 to take part in both atomic missions - it was mistakenly scrapped at Goose Bay
3. Any Corsair that "Pappy" Boyington actually flew
4. PBY that broke orders not to land and rescued many of the crew from the USS Indianapolis.
5. B-24D "The Goon". The AAF's only "Ace in a Day" (if I remember right)gunner flew on this B-24 which was shot down in China - after bailing out the gunner drown in a river because he couldn't swim

Thats all for now - maybe I'll think of more thou'

Tom P.
www.wendoverairbase.com

[Walrus 7]

The stuff that dreams are made of.

1. A 455 Sqn RAAF Hampden that went on the Vaenga trip to Russia.
2. The first P-51 encountered by a German fighter.
3. Walker's 461 Sqn RAAF Sunderland that defeated eight Ju88s in one incident.
4. Any one of the six Avengers that opened the US account at Midway
5. The P-38 that shot down Yamamoto
6. The Feiseler Storch that Otto Skorzeny used to rescue Mussolini
7. The Wirraway that Lt Archer used to shoot down a Zero; the only recorded victory by an Australian-designed aircraft over an enemy fighter.
8. Douglas Bader's Spitfire
9. Any RAAF B-24J that operated from Darwin or Morotai
10. The Meteor that Tony Gaze used to become the first allied airman to land in Germany after the surrender.

It has occured to me that some of these planes may, indeed, still be in existence. I'm sure you blokes will tell me if they are.

Walrus

[Shay]

WendoverTom
I thought the B-29 "The Great Artiste" was on display at Whiteman AFB? Is 44-61671 not the actual plane?

As for my list I'll go with:

1.) Dewoitine D.520 flown by Sergent-Chef Pierre Le Gloan during the fall of France

2.) Any Curtiss P-40C flown by the American Volunteers Group of the 100 batch

3.) ME 109E flown by Adolf Galland during the BOB

4.) Curtiss P-40B flown by LT. Joseph H. Moore during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

5.) Any A6M Zero flown by Saburo Sakai

6.) P-38 flown by either 1st Lt. Rex Barber or Capt. Thomas Lamphier

7.) G4M Betty carrying Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto shot down by the above mentioned.

8.) P-51D Glamorous Glennis III flown by Capt. Chuck Yeager

9.) G4M Betty carrying surrender party at the end of WW2.

10.) Spitfire Mk.I flown by Adolf G. Malan during BOB

Actually this list could be bigger, there are so many aircraft.

I could have made this alot harder. Orginally I was going to make the stipulation that the sanctity of the Time line had to be preserved. Meaning that aircraft could only be retrieved if they were shot down or never returned to base and so on. As long as taking them out of the time line didn't change History. Now like mentioned before if an aircraft were shot down then just before impact they could be brought back. Or perhaps an aircraft could be taken from a Scrapping yard after the war. i.e. "Dragon and his tail" etc. Doing it with that rule in mind would be a little harder.

Shay

[Don Martin]

Any one of the Boeing B-314 Clippers, especially the one(Hawaiian Clipper?!) that got caught on the wrong side of the war and flew back to the states the long way around.

[Chris Brame]

A few easy ones -

B-17G "Five Grand"
B-24D "Lady Be Good" (to display as found in '59 as a memorial instead of getting cut to pieces)
TBD flown by Ens. George Gay
P-51 flown by Don Gentile
F4F from VMF-211 at Wake Island
SBC-4 Helldiver (the French would have used them if they'd gotten them in time)
My uncle's B-24 (so sue me)

Over to you...

[Matt]

Hi Walrus,
Yep, at least one of those planes does still exist and I might have to be forgiven for possibly being biased here, but Archer's Wirraway is in the Australian War Memorial. It's displayed in an 'interesting' manner which looks pretty ordinary in photos but actually works really well when you see it in the flesh.

Cheers,
Matt

The stuff that dreams are made of.

1. A 455 Sqn RAAF Hampden that went on the Vaenga trip to Russia.
2. The first P-51 encountered by a German fighter.
3. Walker's 461 Sqn RAAF Sunderland that defeated eight Ju88s in one incident.
4. Any one of the six Avengers that opened the US account at Midway
5. The P-38 that shot down Yamamoto
6. The Feiseler Storch that Otto Skorzeny used to rescue Mussolini
7. The Wirraway that Lt Archer used to shoot down a Zero; the only recorded victory by an Australian-designed aircraft over an enemy fighter.
8. Douglas Bader's Spitfire
9. Any RAAF B-24J that operated from Darwin or Morotai
10. The Meteor that Tony Gaze used to become the first allied airman to land in Germany after the surrender.

It has occured to me that some of these planes may, indeed, still be in existence. I'm sure you blokes will tell me if they are.

Walrus

[Rob Mears]

1. Cmdr. Tommy Blackburn’s F4U-1A Corsair “Big Hog” (BuNo.17640)
2. Lt. Ira Kepford’s F4U-1A #29 (BuNo.55995)
3. XF4U-1 prototype
4. F4U-4B BuNo.97489 (for personal reasons)
5. Cook Cleland’s Race #94 XF2G-1 Corsair
6. Ron Puckett’s Race #18 XF2G-1 Corsair
7. An example of the F4U-2
8. An example of the F4U-1C
9. FG-1A "Lucky Gallon" prior to the 1949 Cleveland wind storm.

[Dan K]

Gee Rob, your list is quite a surprise...

But you only chose nine. How about the F4U-1(WM) version to round out the collection. I always thought the birdcage canopy & 4360 was an awesome-looking combination.

http://www.vought.com/heritage/photo/ht ... -1m_0.html

[wendovertom]

Shay- yup, the B-29 at Whiteman is not the original a/c. There were 5 silverplate B-29s sent to China Lake - of course nothing is known after that as to their final disposition.

Tom P
www.wendoverairbase.com

[137 Squadron]

I recall reading a photo feature in After The Battle magazine showing the wreckage of Yamamto's Betty on a Pacific island, about twenty years ago. I don't know whether the wreck is still there but maybe someone who subscribes to this forum knows.

WendoverTom
I thought the B-29 "The Great Artiste" was on display at Whiteman AFB? Is 44-61671 not the actual plane?

As for my list I'll go with:

1.) Dewoitine D.520 flown by Sergent-Chef Pierre Le Gloan during the fall of France

2.) Any Curtiss P-40C flown by the American Volunteers Group of the 100 batch

3.) ME 109E flown by Adolf Galland during the BOB

4.) Curtiss P-40B flown by LT. Joseph H. Moore during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

5.) Any A6M Zero flown by Saburo Sakai

6.) P-38 flown by either 1st Lt. Rex Barber or Capt. Thomas Lamphier

7.) G4M Betty carrying Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto shot down by the above mentioned.

8.) P-51D Glamorous Glennis III flown by Capt. Chuck Yeager

9.) G4M Betty carrying surrender party at the end of WW2.

10.) Spitfire Mk.I flown by Adolf G. Malan during BOB

Actually this list could be bigger, there are so many aircraft.

I could have made this alot harder. Orginally I was going to make the stipulation that the sanctity of the Time line had to be preserved. Meaning that aircraft could only be retrieved if they were shot down or never returned to base and so on. As long as taking them out of the time line didn't change History. Now like mentioned before if an aircraft were shot down then just before impact they could be brought back. Or perhaps an aircraft could be taken from a Scrapping yard after the war. i.e. "Dragon and his tail" etc. Doing it with that rule in mind would be a little harder.

Shay