Wreck Chasing in Africa?

[John Dupre]

As we know during WW2 there were thousands of aircraft shipped or flown to Eastern Africa that were then flown over central Africa to Western Africa and Egypt and on to India. There must have been dozens if not hundreds of aircraft lost along this route. I have never heard of any being discovered since the war. Some of the route is still pretty primeval and of course political instability is endemic but have there been any WW2 era aircraft discovered along this route and does anyone search for them there? Even with local salvage of wrecks for domestic uses there must be some remains somewhere. Seems like it might be an as yet underexplored area for recovery.

[tom d. friedman]

you are right with your question. while this topic has been posted before, it needs addressed again. the vast expanse of land & sand hold alot of rare birds both allied & axis. i'm more interested in the italian birds as they are especially rare. as to recovery, it's tough with all the political b.s. a metal detector & a kids sandbox shovel & bucket would be a good start.

[RyanShort1]

It is my understanding that attempts have been made from time to time to do this. However, there are significant issues involved with governments, harsh conditions, etc... and having seen what happened to the Lady Be Good there is a likelyhood that all but the most remote have been vandalized.
It's doable, but think LOTS of money and a painstaking process to get the proper permissions and hopefully avoid debacles such as have happened with the PNG folks. Best not to just go off in a bumbling manner.
Also, it's a BIG area with few facilities and places to go to get necessities. Not too likely to sneak in and out successfully.

Ryan

[Dan K]

As we know during WW2 there were thousands of aircraft shipped or flown to Eastern Africa that were then flown over central Africa to Western Africa and Egypt and on to India. There must have been dozens if not hundreds of aircraft lost along this route. I have never heard of any being discovered since the war. Some of the route is still pretty primeval and of course political instability is endemic but have there been any WW2 era aircraft discovered along this route and does anyone search for them there? Even with local salvage of wrecks for domestic uses there must be some remains somewhere. Seems like it might be an as yet underexplored area for recovery.

Hi John,

An excellent question!

Back in 2001, a brother-in-law of mine (who spent six years as a Christian missionary in Malawi) and I were contacted by our church body to conduct three weeks of exploratory mission work in up-country Nigeria.

Being slightly familiar with the wartime ferry operations of which you've mentioned, I was hopeful of the opportunity to survey locals for info concerning any possible surviving Tomahawks or Hurricanes.

To make a short story even shorter, the trip was ultimately canceled due to increasing instability in the interior. The original plan included our being escorted throughout our trip by a pair of armed escorts, but even that was no longer considered sufficient for effective travel at the time. Both of us being husbands and fathers, we considered discretion the better part of valor.

The exploratory work has not been rescheduled since then, and I'm at a point in life where stooging around local shooting matches would create too much anxiety for my dependents.

[jdvoss]

A real find in the wastes of Africa would be a Martin A-30 Baltimore. Many of these were flown that route as they could make an intermediary stop on Ascension Island. I read book (name??) written by an RCAF ferry pilot and he personally went down with an A-30 on an island in the Amazon. Now would that be find or what?

[Ethan]

does any one think there would be any planes left in Libya ? Like a P-40 or me-109 for example?

[Bluedharma]

For a good read, check out the book by WIX member Gordon Page - "Warbird Recovery".
It explains some of the challenges of going overseas to locate and save some of these aircraft.

I imagine if there are aircraft somewhere in the sands of Libya, finding them would only be half the problem.

Best Regards,

[Django]

There's got to be some B-24s too.

[daveymac82c]

Looking for warbirds in Africa sounds like a really exciting prospect.

I can only imagine how many P-40's, ME-109's, etc are scattered around the region. I'm somewhat ignorant of all the military operations that occurred in Africa, but get the feeling they mostly occurred in northern Africa. Would that be somewhat correct?

Due to the desolation of many parts of Northern Africa I can only assume that airframes would be relatively untouched, but buried in the sand, maybe?

I kind of see many parts of Africa like Canada's far north, but with the only difference being temperature. Where as Canada's north is freaking cold most of the time, Africa appears to be freaking hot all the time.

It's too bad that things are so unstable in Africa, because it would be really worth looking for some rare airframes.

Maybe work can be done now to figure out rough or even accurate ideas of where airplanes went down, and then hope for more peaceful times in the future to go looking. If not, I'm affraid we'd need our own militia to fend off attackers. Oh, and we'll probably also need some crafty lawyers to negotiate with the governments over there.

I've got a shovel and I'm willing to travel.

Oh, just thought of a question. In Africa, where would you all assume the airframes would be found? And how would they be found? Are we talkin' a ME-109 belly-landing in the middle of nowhere and still looking that way to this day, or are we expecting to find them 20 ft under sand dunes?

Or, would they be in jungles?

Maybe aerial surveys would be appropriate for spotting airframes.

Cheers,

David

[Sril]

Hello

For the wreck in deserts, I'm not sure you can find a full airframe.
In 1959 an airliner located a Free French Blenheim that landed in 41 in the limits of Lybia and Tchad. After a patrol found the wreck, and the remains of the infortunate crew, they destroyed the Bleinheim not to be signaled another time by aircrafts flying over. I've heard of a B24 destroyed in the same conditions
That was as it happened in this period.

There are places in Lybia where there were some remains of Free French aircraft (near Koufra region) like Potez 29. Some picture taken in the 70ies attest they were there at this time, but now?

Now, to find some wreck in some parts of Africa, you must bring a Marines squad, lots of cash with you and be veeeeeeeery patient!!!!

[Dan K]

I don't think anyone will argue that the combat zone of North Africa (Libya, Algeria) still holds the remains of wrecks, but the talk is straying from the original topic.

The route John wrote of was located south of the Sahara. Early in the North African contest, merchant shipping was bringing mostly RAF Tomahawks and Hurricanes to the port of Lagos in Nigeria. The aircraft were assembled and then ferried to the east, hop-scotching through remote airstrips south of the Sahara. Oftentimes the single-engined types were led by something larger (like Blenheims) with a designated navigator. The journey would continue east and then use the Nile to navigate north to Egypt and the combat zone.

John's original post wasn't about combat wrecks, but rather aircraft that went down for mechanical reasons or wiped out on take-offs and landings on crude strips. The RAF used small repair teams to rebuild and recover minor prangs, but the evidence is strong that considerable remains were left behind.

[PeterA]

The route John wrote of was located south of the Sahara.

Try a google search on:- 'Takoradi air route'

PeterA

[Nathan]

Could it be possible that some wrecks are deep in sand? How would you find them?

[tom d. friedman]

metal detector for sure, & probably a magnetometer. i'm not sure if side scan sonar could penetrate through sand

[Nathan]

Thats a lot of area to search though. I guess you could try follow recorded crashes but then you might not turn up anything. I say pick a spot and start searching.