Current instruction for multi-engine WB's

What would be a current training schedule for becoming certified PIC of multi-engine warbirds such as a B-25, B-17 etc. Would a student practice stalls, spins in large aircraft like these? Would there be a minimum amount of Co-pilot & PIC flight hours required? .... Or does it vary? what aircraft would a student begin his/her training with to begin the process? What experience in multi-engine aircraft would an instructor require before beginning flight training in multi-engine warbirds?

M

[bluehawk15]

The CAF's regs aren't on the web right now. I was going to see what their numbers were for you. I think they are in the process of updating them for distribution next month at the Winter Staff Conference. The last I read, they want you to have 20 hours in the right seat before transitioning to the left. I'm not sure what the total hours they want you to have are. I'll look at my hard copy when I get home and try to get you a better answer tomorrow (I can't post at home with my old computer and slow dial-up).

As far as what they have you do, I'll ask our B-25 IP and get back to you on that as well. I should find out personally this spring as it looks like I'm going to have to start flying the 25 some, at least from the right seat.

[D Hansen]

We have been going through the certification for PIC in the Harpoon and can share the following. The FAA will require you to take a "TYPE Check-ride" to obtain a "TYPE" rating
for any aircraft over !2,500lbs. You can take a VFR restricted type ride but will have to currently hold an instrument rating
prior to check ride. Didn't say it made sense...just what is required by the Feds. Time in type etc is usually determined by what Insurance wants to see for min.time for PIC
Hope this helps
Dave
PV-2"AW"

[Taigh Ramey]

We do multi engine flight training here in Stockton, California in a C-45H, the military version of the Beech 18. The Twin Beech is a great aircraft to prepare you for larger multi engine warbirds for several reasons.

The Beech has radial engines to help you to learn their care and feeding. The R985 can take more abuse than a larger radial so it is better suited for training. Actual engine shut downs are a lot easier on the engines since the 985 does not have a geared nose case.

The Hamilton Standard propeller is the same system used on most large multi engine warbirds.

The Twin Beech is a close coupled aircraft that likes to swap ends if you aren't careful. Things seem to happen slower in the B-25, C-47 and other aircraft compared to the Beech 18. Learning the proper use of differential power, which essential to the Beech, is a great asset in flying the larger Warbirds. The power settings are close if not the same on several of bombers.

Although I have had many students do it; I cannot recommend doing your initial multi training in a Twin Beech as it is expensive and there is a lot going on for the new multi pilot to grasp. My preference is for the student to get their multi and tail wheel in something smaller and cheaper and then get some experience under your belt before trying the Beech on for size.

The Beech is a blast to fly (and taxi) and is a real fun aircraft to get to know. You can do some amazing things with her and she will teach you a lot in the process. I think she is the perfect trainer for any of the larger multi engined warbirds.

I have a check list for the C-45H that I use for training which has a section called the Check-ride Pattern. This section covers all of the basic maneuvers found in a typical check-ride and the procedures that pertain to this particular Beech. I will be happy to send you a copy if you like, just send me an e-mail and I will gladly return a copy to you.

Taigh, I would love to see you post anything here that would enlighten us on WIX with your procedures. I think this forum would be a great place to see your process.

PM me as well if you wouldn't mind. I'm very interested ...

Mark

[bdk]

Would a student practice stalls, spins in large aircraft like these?

Stalls maybe, but spins?

I don't know? you tell me ... spins? ... It's a question ... I'm a Cessna and Swift jockey ... what do I know about large aircraft besides nothing?

Remember this friend .... It's NOT the question that may be stupid, but the answer that may be stupid, so it's easier to ask a dumb question than it is to answer a dumb question ... then again it could be the other way around ...

Last edited by Hellcat on Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

[bdk]

I'm certainly no expert, but I've never heard of anyone doing spin training in any multi-engine prop aircraft.

Well then we'll see who might just be an EXPERT here on multi-engine spinning shall we? ... or shall we assume spins in large aircraft never occurs? ... I'm interested, are you? We may just learn something here ... or not!!

I just re-read this post, sounded a bit mean, sorry for that, it was from last night. ugh!!! long day of work and that crazy thread way up top can get a guy unraveled a bit as well ....

Last edited by Hellcat on Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

[kenlyco]

Mark, I am kind of going to take BDK side on this one why would you want to put that kind of stress on an airframe thats made to fly staight and clean it's not a fighter ??...but I do understand the stall Question....

I actually agree with you as well. But I have always wondered if large aircraft did practice stalls. All aircraft stall? But I get the point as well. Interesting to know from the folks who actually fly large aircraft here.

[B25PBYGUY]

Three stalls must demonstrated for a type rating....T.O. configuration, Landing configuration, and Cruise configuration. One of these must be accomplished while in a turn, using 15 to 30 degrees bank.
Lastly,....no spins.