Groom Lake photo.. 1960s up close...
Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:52 am
http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/im ... m1960s.jpg
Here we go.. a amazing 1960s photo of Groom lake UP VERY close..
Sure shows alot of equipment in situ for a hidden base eh eh....
Can anyone hazard a guess the hangers? A-12/ U-2 and whatesle ?
Here we go.. a amazing 1960s photo of Groom lake UP VERY close..
Sure shows alot of equipment in situ for a hidden base eh eh....
Can anyone hazard a guess the hangers? A-12/ U-2 and whatesle ?
Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:54 am
Can confirm F-101B Vodoos were stationed at Groom in 1960s.
Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:48 am
i can't access the link. this thread could be a goldmine for me as i'm writing a magazine article about brigadier general robert holbury, area 51's 1st commander. he hails from my part of ohio, & i've interviewed both his son & daughter. i've got incredible pics from his kids for the article. holbury was amazing, top dog on the a-12 project, #1 recon man in the usaf. i'd give my eye teeth to get to this link.
Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:00 am
Photo link works for me? Just shows a close up of some of the base.
I envy you.. but you could be walking on nails - black world stuff there in the guy right?
What kind of info has his kids passed on? Any chance to share the photos?
I envy you.. but you could be walking on nails - black world stuff there in the guy right?
What kind of info has his kids passed on? Any chance to share the photos?
Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:07 am
got to get the article published 1st
Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:24 am
If you go to the root
http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/
Then go to the various photo galleries. Lots of cool pics.
http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/
Then go to the various photo galleries. Lots of cool pics.
Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:50 pm
flyingheritage wrote:Photo link works for me? Just shows a close up of some of the base.
I envy you.. but you could be walking on nails - black world stuff there in the guy right?
What kind of info has his kids passed on? Any chance to share the photos?
i've hit the roadrunners site thoroughly, was at the a-12 symposium in mobile alabama in 2008 with wixer owen miller as well. as for general hobury's children they quite frankly told me that there dad didn't talk about his work when he came home. i've still got alot of info from his kids, prior to groom lake & after, & quite a bit of ww 2 info when he flew recon in f-5 photo lightnings & p-51. as stated, i can't release any pics until the article is finished. some data of area 51 / groom lake will never be declassified, & some of the symposium guests (a-12 drivers) are sworn to secrecy to this day almost 50 years later!!
Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:05 am
Should point out you dont believe everything the US military tells you.
When a MIG-23 crashed in 1981 killing its pilot.. the wife and family were told he died in a Northorp F-5E Tiger.
Northorp went ape as it was going to be sued or something and demanded more information as it had no record of the said crash or plane in their records.
After 20years it was only then released to the wife and others that the pilot died in a savage crash flying.... a Mig-23... the wife had a hunch as the husband had models of F-5 Tiger, Mig -17, Mig 21 and Mig-23 and she could work out some of the connecting issues but never guessed for sure he flew these "desk models" until told officially yet secretly.
So next time you hear something crash in the Nellis Complex or Edward range etc think twice as you may be on the receving end of disinformation from Det 3 of Area 51-Tonopah......
Going dreamland.....I would love to see a rich millionaire offer a prize to acquire inside photos of Area 51... but somehow suspect all the workers are threatened with death if they speak or such... was proven 20yrs ago in some news stories as i recall.
When a MIG-23 crashed in 1981 killing its pilot.. the wife and family were told he died in a Northorp F-5E Tiger.
Northorp went ape as it was going to be sued or something and demanded more information as it had no record of the said crash or plane in their records.
After 20years it was only then released to the wife and others that the pilot died in a savage crash flying.... a Mig-23... the wife had a hunch as the husband had models of F-5 Tiger, Mig -17, Mig 21 and Mig-23 and she could work out some of the connecting issues but never guessed for sure he flew these "desk models" until told officially yet secretly.
So next time you hear something crash in the Nellis Complex or Edward range etc think twice as you may be on the receving end of disinformation from Det 3 of Area 51-Tonopah......
Going dreamland.....I would love to see a rich millionaire offer a prize to acquire inside photos of Area 51... but somehow suspect all the workers are threatened with death if they speak or such... was proven 20yrs ago in some news stories as i recall.
Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:45 pm
I was in the CAP in Georgia with a former USAF A-12 / SR-71 pilot. He said there were numerous areas of the program that he was still not allowed to talk about. This was in 1999 or 2000. After he retired from the USAF, he went on to spend a long career with Delta, and when he passed away in early 2001, he had more than 38,000 flight hours.
Walt
Walt
Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:09 pm
flyingheritage wrote:Should point out you dont believe everything the US military tells you.
The US military, BY LAW, is actually NOT ALLOWED to release "disinformation" publicly. It may selectively release information, or make "no comment", but it is not allowed to outright lie to the public.
flyingheritage wrote:Det 3 of Area 51-Tonopah......
Interesting contraction of three different concepts.
flyingheritage wrote:but somehow suspect all the workers are threatened with death if they speak or such... was proven 20yrs ago in some news stories as i recall.
It's no secret that military members and contractors can sign lifelong non-disclosure agreements that can result in serious Federal offenses. Theoretically, some of those offenses can be punished by death.
Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:45 pm
So if they cant lie - explain the screw up on the Mig-23 crash when it was a "F-5" if that aint a lie what is?
The USAF does and continues to lie ..............sorry US government continues to lie and will so to cover itself.
How comes when a "black plane" crashed at Boscombe Down in 1990s in UK it never happned everyone was told yet something still to this day crashed.
People have all kinds of idea to what it was that required a hush hush massive effect and a C-5 Galaxy to come overnight to remove the plane..
The USAF does and continues to lie ..............sorry US government continues to lie and will so to cover itself.
How comes when a "black plane" crashed at Boscombe Down in 1990s in UK it never happned everyone was told yet something still to this day crashed.
People have all kinds of idea to what it was that required a hush hush massive effect and a C-5 Galaxy to come overnight to remove the plane..
Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Whatever, bud.
When you decide to head down the road of conspiracy theory, there is simply no acceptable answer, unfortuantely.
They could open up Groom Lake for guided press tours and show everything that is there, and there would still be people shouting from the hills about the great US government cover-up.
Yes, secrets are kept. No, "disinformation" is not allowed by law.
"The Family" being told something is completely different than there being some kind of press release about it.
Not telling "the Truth" about a possible crash of a classified aircraft is NOT "disinformation".
When you decide to head down the road of conspiracy theory, there is simply no acceptable answer, unfortuantely.
They could open up Groom Lake for guided press tours and show everything that is there, and there would still be people shouting from the hills about the great US government cover-up.
Yes, secrets are kept. No, "disinformation" is not allowed by law.
"The Family" being told something is completely different than there being some kind of press release about it.
Not telling "the Truth" about a possible crash of a classified aircraft is NOT "disinformation".
Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:21 pm
Randy seems you lost in this... me thinks.
Disinformation is very clear in the Mig case.
Take you..... your a USAF pilot and cant see the difference between a F-5 Tiger and a Mig-23 and that is a lie... what is it? Truth? doubt it.
Imagine if you died.. flying a B-1 bomber but you died in a F-15. Now that is purposely disinformation to not associate you with flying a B-1B bomber isnt it.
Whole issue is Northorp went ape after it was to be sued over disinformation in the crash.
Disinformation is very clear in the Mig case.
Take you..... your a USAF pilot and cant see the difference between a F-5 Tiger and a Mig-23 and that is a lie... what is it? Truth? doubt it.
Imagine if you died.. flying a B-1 bomber but you died in a F-15. Now that is purposely disinformation to not associate you with flying a B-1B bomber isnt it.
Whole issue is Northorp went ape after it was to be sued over disinformation in the crash.
Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:27 pm
All right, I came back and changed my answer here because it warrants a better response than I originally gave.
Let's get something straight -- disinformation is a very specific concept. It involves manipulation of a target audience to accomplish a specific goal. It is NOT the same as "not telling the truth" or "telling a half truth".
When I say that the US military is legally bound to not spread disinformation, that is a factually true statement.
Telling the family of a pilot who was killed flying a classified aircraft that he was flying a different type of aircraft is not "disinformation". The US military is not trying to manipulate this family for some specific gain. Instead, they are protecting the existance of a classified program by using a cover story. The CONSTANT PEG pilots also used A-4, F-5, and F-4 entries in their logbooks to identify the different MiGs...again, not as disinformation, but to cover for the actual aircraft they were flying.
So, let's be clear -- this is NOT a case of "disinformation". I stand by my earlier statement that this is not legally acceptable.
You've obviously all ready made up your mind on this subject, and to be honest it's not my place (or my perogative) to give you the top-to-bottom legal explanation of how information relating to classified programs is protected. Guess what -- the military DOES have that privilege to protect what it does from the general public. It uses many different methods to protect that information, and I can tell you from personal experience that nothing is done without a whole staff of lawyers who look over it all and ensure that bounds aren't being overstepped.
Remember, ultimately the military reports to civilian leadership. Information and programs that are not releasable to the general public DO have oversight from your elected officials. They DO know what is going on, and they DO approve, disapprove, and control purse strings. It is FAR, FAR, FAR from some conspiracy.
If it makes you feel better to be able to cast a Finger Of Reproach at the US military and alert the world to the "lies", "disinformation", etc., then so be it. Have a nut. So far as I'm concerned, that is simply enough said about this topic.
Let's get something straight -- disinformation is a very specific concept. It involves manipulation of a target audience to accomplish a specific goal. It is NOT the same as "not telling the truth" or "telling a half truth".
When I say that the US military is legally bound to not spread disinformation, that is a factually true statement.
Telling the family of a pilot who was killed flying a classified aircraft that he was flying a different type of aircraft is not "disinformation". The US military is not trying to manipulate this family for some specific gain. Instead, they are protecting the existance of a classified program by using a cover story. The CONSTANT PEG pilots also used A-4, F-5, and F-4 entries in their logbooks to identify the different MiGs...again, not as disinformation, but to cover for the actual aircraft they were flying.
So, let's be clear -- this is NOT a case of "disinformation". I stand by my earlier statement that this is not legally acceptable.
You've obviously all ready made up your mind on this subject, and to be honest it's not my place (or my perogative) to give you the top-to-bottom legal explanation of how information relating to classified programs is protected. Guess what -- the military DOES have that privilege to protect what it does from the general public. It uses many different methods to protect that information, and I can tell you from personal experience that nothing is done without a whole staff of lawyers who look over it all and ensure that bounds aren't being overstepped.
Remember, ultimately the military reports to civilian leadership. Information and programs that are not releasable to the general public DO have oversight from your elected officials. They DO know what is going on, and they DO approve, disapprove, and control purse strings. It is FAR, FAR, FAR from some conspiracy.
If it makes you feel better to be able to cast a Finger Of Reproach at the US military and alert the world to the "lies", "disinformation", etc., then so be it. Have a nut. So far as I'm concerned, that is simply enough said about this topic.