Lost Squadron aircraft

Sat May 30, 2009 10:49 am

About the Operation Bolo aircraft buried in ice, was Glacier Girl the only P-38 worth salvaging? I realize the B-17s were pretty much trashed but what about the other 4-5 P-38s down there?

Sat May 30, 2009 11:05 am

I am aware of one group (who's name I forget) that is, or was, planning a trip to look into a recovery of one of the other P-38s. However, I believe that Glacier Girl was picked because it was supposedly the best one of the bunch that landed there, based on pictures from when the crews were rescued. Anything else under the ice would be in worse shape than G.G. was, if you can imagine that.

Gary

Sat May 30, 2009 2:56 pm

retroaviation wrote: However, I believe that Glacier Girl was picked because it was supposedly the best one of the bunch that landed there, based on pictures from when the crews were rescued. Anything else under the ice would be in worse shape than G.G. was, if you can imagine that.

Gary

IIRC, Glacier Girl was selected because she was the only P-38 where the pilot cut the engines and feathered the props before bellying in. So they figured she had the best props (two of six blades were bent) and engines.

I read an article where Bob Cardin said that literally every part of the plane still needed to be fixed ...

Sat May 30, 2009 3:15 pm

Actually, that info I had was from when Bob Cardin came to Midland to speak about the G.G. recovery. I could, however, have some of my facts mixed up. My mind ain't right anymore and the ol' memory has taken a beating.

Gary

Sat May 30, 2009 4:42 pm

How did they evaulate the air craft 300' under the ice ??
I thought they were just happy to find one.

Steve

Sat May 30, 2009 4:53 pm

Bil Thuma, one of the geophysicists on the project, gave a talk to our assoctiation a little while back. He was saying something about a group from Germany (?) wanting to recover one or more of the other P-38s.

He also said that because of global warming the planes are a lot closer to the coast and not as deep, making recovery easier.

if we wait long enough, maybe we can just sit at the coast with a net and catch them as they fall out...

:partyman:

Sat May 30, 2009 5:40 pm

rcaf_100 wrote:He also said that because of global warming the planes are a lot closer to the coast and not as deep, making recovery easier.

if we wait long enough, maybe we can just sit at the coast with a net and catch them as they fall out...

I've used that argument on some of my friends who are a bit over-the-top when it comes to global warming. It tends to annoy them a bit

The downside is the possibility that the moving ice is now tearing the P-38s apart, as it did the more-fragile B-17s.

GG cost about $10 mil to recover and restore. Not sure what the cost would be today, but would imagine it being higher. Probably more cost-effective to dismantle (TEMPORARILY!) GG and reverse-engineer all her parts for tooling and masters so that new-build P-38s can be created.

Sat May 30, 2009 7:53 pm

Forgive the link, but the "Operation Bolero" is looking to recover more of the aircraft. Here's the link:
http://www.operationbolero.org/
Please dont hate me too much for posting a link, :wink:

Sat May 30, 2009 8:33 pm

Garth wrote:GG cost about $10 mil to recover and restore. Not sure what the cost would be today, but would imagine it being higher. Probably more cost-effective to dismantle (TEMPORARILY!) GG and reverse-engineer all her parts for tooling and masters so that new-build P-38s can be created.

Ah, but you'd still have to go down into the ice to get the all-important dataplates. After all, if you can get a dataplate and a few scraps, then you've got yourself an airplane, right? :roll:

On the flip side, there are precious few enough spares for GG as it is (think radiators, etc...) and the addition of one or two more, plus lost time to take it apart and put it back together would serve the double whammy of making it less rare, and preventing it from flying (for a while) and (hopefully) making money on the airshow circuit to keep it airworthy.

Ryan

Sun May 31, 2009 7:22 am

Does anyone know how many parts were recovered from the B-17, those alome would have been worth some dollars with regard to these parts being authentic

Sun May 31, 2009 8:00 am

gary1954 wrote:Does anyone know how many parts were recovered from the B-17, those alome would have been worth some dollars with regard to these parts being authentic

None, I believe.

They drilled some test holes to locate them, pull up some slivers of metal and determine that they were crushed like soda cans.

The pieces probably in the "best" shape for all the aircraft would be the engines.

Sun May 31, 2009 8:11 am

b-17 "big stoop" was located and tunneled to. the aircraft was completely crushed but some smaller parts were taken along with the top fwd turret. Don brooks of Liberty foundation was going to get that aircraft, but after the expedition focused on other potential projects. his C-47 N99FS also made the whole thing possible.

Sun May 31, 2009 3:53 pm

The other group from can be found here:

http://www.lost-squadron.org

Looks like they still collect money for the recovery...

Sun May 31, 2009 8:37 pm

The B17 boys at Pima restored the top turret. There was a decision to be made as to wether it would be installed in the Pima B17 or left on display on its cradle.

Don't know which way they decided to to go.

Sun May 31, 2009 8:44 pm

Rick do you mean in the B-17 "Ill Be Around"? At least from the outside it has a top turret, not sure if that is a real one or not, or if it is that one or not.