Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:44 pm
Nice idea, but not sure if it will work or not? I would like to see the pair be restored and placed on dispaly as a lasting memory to Gary!
Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:45 pm
I say we take a crack at it. 100% of the shots you don't take won't score.
Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:54 pm
Well im sure ladyO2 can give you better contact but these guys have lots of birds that they are taking care of... some on loan from the navy so they might ahve a shot.
http://www.facmuseum.org/
http://www.facmuseum.org/
Re: So how can we save the F-105 and F-101 for Gary
Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:00 pm
Col. Rohr wrote:Without trying to make this into a bashing of the USAF and its policy I would like to discuss....
Just kiddin ya Rob. Forgive me but I'm out of the loop what is the cliff note back story on these 2 aircraft?
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:14 pm
These two aircraft were acquired directly from the USAF base they were originally located on as payment for services rendered several decades ago. They were never in the USAF Museum system, therefore the USAF Museum really should have no say in their final disposition. They are owned by the TAM through and through according to what Gary told me. At the time (about six months ago) Gary and the NMUSAF were trying to come to some sort of ammicable agreement that didn't result in a pissing contest over ownership rights resulting in the destruction of two important artifacts.
Incidentally, both of these airframes were BDR vehicles, and as such the NMUSAF just wanted them scrapped. I do hope that the Air Force Museum changes their opinion though... It would be a crying shame to let these aircraft suffer such a fate.
Richard
Incidentally, both of these airframes were BDR vehicles, and as such the NMUSAF just wanted them scrapped. I do hope that the Air Force Museum changes their opinion though... It would be a crying shame to let these aircraft suffer such a fate.
Richard
Last edited by RMAllnutt on Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:41 pm
I'd love to help in any way I can. Id love to save them. Maybe on the nose we can paint the name "For Gary". Or some other way to remember him.
Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:43 pm
Thanks for that.
If that is the case, without being argumentitive, isn't the law still, posession 9/10ths?
Doesn't the burden of proof lie with the NMUSAF? In other words they need to prove (produce provenance) that they are indeed the owners?
"Amicable" is admirable but you can't have both ways. Either the NMUSAF is the owner and they have the right to stipulate the dispostion of the aircraft. Or the group or individual who owns the property by where they currently reside are the owners and retain all decision making responsiblity.
Not trying to make it a "Pissing contest", I just think proper ownership (oneway or the other) should be ascertained and adhered to.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
If that is the case, without being argumentitive, isn't the law still, posession 9/10ths?
Doesn't the burden of proof lie with the NMUSAF? In other words they need to prove (produce provenance) that they are indeed the owners?
"Amicable" is admirable but you can't have both ways. Either the NMUSAF is the owner and they have the right to stipulate the dispostion of the aircraft. Or the group or individual who owns the property by where they currently reside are the owners and retain all decision making responsiblity.
Not trying to make it a "Pissing contest", I just think proper ownership (oneway or the other) should be ascertained and adhered to.
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:06 pm
Forgive the slight derail, but... it's good to see you back, Colonel. I hope you'll be able to stay for a while. 
Regards,
Lynn
Regards,
Lynn
Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:14 pm
lmritger wrote:Forgive the slight derail, but... it's good to see you back, Colonel. I hope you'll be able to stay for a while.
Regards,
Lynn
Rob, same here, good to see you back, you take care.
Robbie
Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:31 pm
Is the burden of proof of ownership on TAM or NMUSAF? Can't NMUSAF just be ignored since they were out of the loop on the aircraft sale?
Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:33 pm
I think it would be great to carry on Gary's work to preserve these two birds.
Col Rohr you seem pretty familiar with where Gary was in the process with the NMUSAF. I'd say the first step would be getting in contact with the people Gary was in touch with and picking up where he left off.
Col Rohr you seem pretty familiar with where Gary was in the process with the NMUSAF. I'd say the first step would be getting in contact with the people Gary was in touch with and picking up where he left off.
F-105 & F-101
Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:50 pm
Group,
As part of my trade with Gary, I was throwing in some canopies needed for the F-101 project. When someone manages to get control of the aircraft, I will forward the canopies to them.
Let me know if I can be of some other help in getting and preserving these aircraft.
Laterrrrrr
Avn-Tech
As part of my trade with Gary, I was throwing in some canopies needed for the F-101 project. When someone manages to get control of the aircraft, I will forward the canopies to them.
Let me know if I can be of some other help in getting and preserving these aircraft.
Laterrrrrr
Avn-Tech
Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:17 pm
Does anyone have the papertrail for these aircraft? I hate to say it, but this will determine these birds fate.
If we have the papertrail, we need to establish if it has any weakness, such as improper authorization, etc. If the papertrail is solid then we can press on forcefully. Who knows, we may be able to get a flying tribute to Gary.
If not, or if the papertrail is flawed, then we need to figure out what we have and work quickly to get the airframes a home.
Once we know whare we stand, we may be able to put forth a better plan of attack. 'For Gary' can be the rallying cry that gets the job done!
Regards,
Art S.
If we have the papertrail, we need to establish if it has any weakness, such as improper authorization, etc. If the papertrail is solid then we can press on forcefully. Who knows, we may be able to get a flying tribute to Gary.
If not, or if the papertrail is flawed, then we need to figure out what we have and work quickly to get the airframes a home.
Once we know whare we stand, we may be able to put forth a better plan of attack. 'For Gary' can be the rallying cry that gets the job done!
Regards,
Art S.
Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:32 pm
Yes, Gary told me the museum has a good paper trail for the planes so that shouldn't be a problem.
The plan was for the F-105 to be fixed up and put on display at the Snyder airport. Hopefully someone here knows how to get in touch with Gary's TAM contact in Snyder to see what they want to do now. I met him out there but I'm sorry to say I can't recall his name.
I'd really like to help in anyway I can to properly finish what Gary got started. I feel fortunate to have helped Gary with the 105 for a day and I'd love to get back out there at some point.
-Derek
The plan was for the F-105 to be fixed up and put on display at the Snyder airport. Hopefully someone here knows how to get in touch with Gary's TAM contact in Snyder to see what they want to do now. I met him out there but I'm sorry to say I can't recall his name.
I'd really like to help in anyway I can to properly finish what Gary got started. I feel fortunate to have helped Gary with the 105 for a day and I'd love to get back out there at some point.
-Derek
Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:17 am
If anybody cares to approach the airport manager in Snyder (my home town) and make contact about the F-105 and F-101, his name is Roger Sullenger. Please tread carefully though. His son, Steven, also took his own life several years ago. In a strange twist of fate, he was a good friend of mine in high school.