VC-137A....

[JBoyle]

Here's a tough one...or maybe not considering the knowledge here.

The other night I watched a new History Channel special on the Kennedy assination in Dallas.
What I didn't know was that a VC-137A was there along with VC-137C 62-6000.
It was the plane LBJ flew to Dallas. There was a shot of the two together on the ramp at Love Field but I couldn't make out the serial. (BTW: Much was made of RFK's displeasure that LBJ flew in 62-6000 back to Andrews with JFK's body).

Does anyone know which one it was...58-6970, 71 or 72?

At that same time, another of the three A models was on a Pacific trip with the Secretary of State. IIRC, I've read that THAT aircraft is one of the two presereved so it's either at Pima (6971) or Seattle (6970). Can anyone confirm?

And while we're on the topic, anyone have better info on why 58-6972 was scrapped at Witchta in the 90s? All I've ever read is it was due to corrosion.
I would have thoughtthat someone would have saved it for a museum.

BTW: a couple of night later, the National Geographic Channel had another new JFK special featuring all the period local news casts from the Dallas stations that were covering the visit live. They played a part from Love field waiting for 62-6000 to land and they showed a C-130 they said it flew the limos in...it was good to see a new 130. It was natural metal with what looked like a MATS band on the tail.

Last edited by JBoyle on Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[b29flteng]

I watched it too. My question is about the large ventral fin, was it to prevent "Dutch roll"? Did they not have yaw dampers on the VC-137/B-707 ??

[tom d. friedman]

there was so much confusion & panic after that tragedy. the government pulled out all the stops in regard to security. it was thought an overthrow or coup of the government was in the making, related by my friend who was a b-57 bomber pilot in korea, who was on alert scramble status in the cockpit on & off for 72 hours with a live nuke in the bomb bay. another aviation twist to the saga....... in 2002 i did an article for air classics magazine about the ortner bros. / air service. they were tapped by the govt to fly needed radio parts to prez johnson's texas white house where it was thought safer to conduct affairs during the emergency. the ortners flew the radio parts via c-46 commando out of wakeman ohio (here) to a loading destination, & then on to texas.

[Edward Sheetmetalhands]

And while we're on the topic, anyone have better info on why 58-6972 was scrapped at Witchta in the 90s? All I've ever read is it was due to corrosion.
I would have thoughtthat someone would have saved it for a museum.

If my memory serves me correct, and this is all based on hearsay at the lowest levels, the problem was that the prior maintenance by different company other than B___ was not very good and the airframe had been corroding for years unbeknownst to its customer. When it finally got its turn at a real C and D check in Wichita, the major problems were found. Although it would have been possible to resurrect it with new wing skins, etc (that type of work was routine on the KC-135 line due to fatigue life), the powers that be determined it would not be cost effective to keep it in service. This was after major disassembly was done for the C and D checks, including pulling doors, engines, struts, interior, etc. Those parts were to be kept as spares for the rest of the fleet. It had also been stripped of all paint, making it an empty dull gray shell. They parked it over at the air museum for a while so as not to clutter up the place for the visiting customers that went through there. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, they leased or sold? 4 brand new VIP 757's to replace the 707's. I don't think the museum was given a chance to keep it. It sat for about a year outside until it fell victim to the scrapper. Many of us nobodies would have loved to have seen it stay, but given how the service tends to justify a need to purchase new ones by scrapping the old ones , and is it really the original airplane when half of it is missing....

[JBoyle]

ES...
Thanks for that explanation on why 6972 was scrapped. If she was stripped and found to be too far gone, no sense in spending a lot of money putting her back together again.

So that still leaves the question of the ID of the plane in Dallas.
Any guesses?

[gary1954]

(BTW: Much was made of RFK's displeasure that LBJ flew in 62-6000 back to Andrews with JFK's body).

BTW: a couple of night later, the National Geographic Channel had another new JFK special featuring all the period local news casts from the Dallas stations that were covering the visit live. They played a part from Love field waiting for 62-6000 to land and they showed a C-130 they said it flew the limos in...it was good to see a [i]new 130. It was natural metal with what looked like a MATS band on the tail.

RFK and LBJ probably did not see eyeball to eyeball on a lot of things. But, LBJ was certainly within his position to be sworn into the office as POTUS, and fly out on AF1 he was then after all POTUS.

When Dan Quale as VP flew into Ft Benning/Columbus, Georgia they brought AF2 and two 141 Starlifters for all his requirements

[mustangdriver]

The NMUSAF's VC-137 is the one that flew JFK's body.

[The Inspector]

The very early 707's were a pilots Nordic Track stairclimber @ 350 kts. The vertical fin wasn't tall enough (not uncommon, most aircraft are designed with the vertical way, way undersized) and with no/weak yaw dampners it was a leg building exercise flying one. The vertical was increased by around 43 inches above the rudder top edge (compare pictures and you'll see the extension after it was added) and better yaw dampners fited. curiously enough, the rudder was the only direct hydraulic flight control on the 707. The skeg was added on 720's and 138's (QUANTAS) to make up for the lack of wetted area to cut down on the airplane fishtailing in flight and carried over to the Intercontinentals (320/420) as a good idea and cheap insurance for the future.
The only parts directly interchangeable without some/ lots of modification (class "A" interchangeability) between the model 717 (KC/C-135) and the 707 were the #1,2,&3 flight deck windows (windshield, slider, and aft viewing) and the eyeball overhead glass, virtually nothing was interchangeable between models which is why Boeing was well down the production run (like in the high 600's) before all the engineering/reengineering changes to stay even with or ahead of the DC-8 were finally amortized. Not even the landing gear is interchangeable between models.

[The Inspector]

Oh, yeah, by the way, the probe that looks like a 20 MM cannon in the fin leading edge is for a "Q" spring input.
The "Q" spring works a bellows and linkage against ram air pressure to limit rudder throw as airspeed increases so you don't break the airplane in half while cruising , the same setup is what you see on all DC-9/MD-80's verticals too, the linkage on the DC's works whats referred to as 'the bananna hook' which is a slotted slide that limits rudder travel above 125 kt's and faster. Simple but effective.

[JBoyle]

The NMUSAF's VC-137 is the one that flew JFK's body.

That's not in doubt. The plane is question is a VC-137A, not the C model.

[mustangdriver]

Oh sorry , I misunderstood one of the questions.