B-24 questions.

[Devilbrad]

Hey guys, new here, I made an intro thread in the welcome section. I have some questions about B-24's. I am building a radio controlled 90 inch wing span B-24D and while doing research have noticed some things. First, some of them seem to have corrugated bomb bay doors, while others are smooth. Did the smooth ones swing out and corrugated roll up? When was the change made? Also, what dictates when the larger waist gunner hatches where used? I'm going through the Diamond Lil thread right now (may Gary RIP) and getting lots of great detail pics. Do you guys know of any other similar color pic threads on the internet? Google is giving me a ton of black and white blurry photos and a search of B-24 on here doesn't give me much. Also, while searching I ran across this pic of the Photo Queen "B-24 F-7A 42-73049 20th Combat Mapping Squadron". Any more pics of this bird or its nose art? Thanks in advance!

[gregv]

welcome to WIX, sounds like you've got a neat project there.

As far as the bomb bay doors, I was under the impression that all models of the B-24/PB4Y/F-7/Liberator had the same doors, the "tambour" style roll-up units. They are smooth on the outside but do look "corrugated" on the inside due to their construction method. Looking at photos it seems that the doors are almost always open when the a/c is on the ground, I think for ease of crew access.

From my copy of "B-24 Liberator In Action", the waist gun positions had the same size openings on all models from the B24C onwards, except for the enclosed ones on the B-24L & B24H, and I think the B24M, but I'm not an expert on these birds, others will know more.

good luck

greg v.

[Second Air Force]

As Greg said, all the variants used the same bomb bay doors. The set Gary acquired are a perfect reference. I did a LOT of research on how the doors worked a couple of years ago when it looked like I'd be installing them. It's quite ingenious, really--two hydraulic actuators, one on each side of the aircraft, run a series of cables that drive sprockets at the front and rear of each door. The sprockets mesh with the roller brackets on the door and run them up and down. If you get a chance to see Witchcraft you will be able to see the mechanism very well. I have the pertinent diagrams somewhere in the attic unless I pitched them. I may have posted them on the Lil thread, so look through it up to March of 2008.

The waist gun doors on the B-24A and early LB-30s are actually the same basic size as all later models, just located higher up on the fuselage.

Hope this helps, and welcome to WIX!
Scott

[Devilbrad]

welcome to WIX, sounds like you've got a neat project there.

As far as the bomb bay doors, I was under the impression that all models of the B-24/PB4Y/F-7/Liberator had the same doors, the "tambour" style roll-up units. They are smooth on the outside but do look "corrugated" on the inside due to their construction method. Looking at photos it seems that the doors are almost always open when the a/c is on the ground, I think for ease of crew access.

From my copy of "B-24 Liberator In Action", the waist gun positions had the same size openings on all models from the B24C onwards, except for the enclosed ones on the B-24L & B24H, and I think the B24M, but I'm not an expert on these birds, others will know more.

good luck

greg v.

Thanks Greg! I need to pick up some B-24 books. I just got the kit yesterday, LOL Looking at the Strawberry Bitch, the bomb bay doors appear to hinge just below the grey paint line, while on The Dragon And His Tail they appear to be the "tambour" or "corrugated" style doors. This is where my question stems.

[Devilbrad]

As Greg said, all the variants used the same bomb bay doors. The set Gary acquired are a perfect reference. I did a LOT of research on how the doors worked a couple of years ago when it looked like I'd be installing them. It's quite ingenious, really--two hydraulic actuators, one on each side of the aircraft, run a series of cables that drive sprockets at the front and rear of each door. The sprockets mesh with the roller brackets on the door and run them up and down. If you get a chance to see Witchcraft you will be able to see the mechanism very well. I have the pertinent diagrams somewhere in the attic unless I pitched them. I may have posted them on the Lil thread, so look through it up to March of 2008.

The waist gun doors on the B-24A and early LB-30s are actually the same basic size as all later models, just located higher up on the fuselage.

Hope this helps, and welcome to WIX!
Scott

Thank you for the clarification! Maybe I can rig a real type setup in my scale plane. Just have to keep the weight down.

[gregv]

I can't see the pic of the SB that you linked to, but looking at other pics on-line I think I see what you are referring to; the line at the paint demarcation line is I believe the actual opening of the bomb bay line, and you should be able to see some track lines running vertically from the front and rear of the bomb bay that are what the doors roll up on. I checked my copy of "The B-24 Liberator" by Steve Birdsall and it has shots of the SB being prepped for the NMUSAF back in the 60's, and the bomb bay doors are definitely the roll-up type. I'd scan the pics but I'm actually supposed to be wiring my reno right now.....here's a shot from Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/musematt11 ... 4/sizes/o/

cheers

greg v.

[Devilbrad]

Thanks Greg, I am starting to understand my confusion.

[Steve Nelson]

Here's the pic of the Strawberry showing the open bombay doors, from my well-worn copy of Birdsall's book (I've had it since the late '70s.)



And here's one posted on WIX awhile back showing her being prepped for her final flight from Tuscon to Dayton.



I've actually crawled through Strawberry's bomb bay (back when the NMUSAF still did "open cockpit" events) and can confirm that she has the same "roll up" doors as all other B-24s. I took a bunch of detail shots on one recent visit..here are a couple that show the door tracks to good advantage. I'm actually surprised the museum doesn't have them open. Most of their other WWII bombers are displayed with open bombays.





Cheers!

Steve

[Devilbrad]

Steve, thanks. That makes everything cyrstal clear. I am a complete bonehead and am actually embarrassed to say this. In your first color pic with the doors rolled up, I always though the gray area was stationary and the doors rolled up behind them. I see my mistake now, wow I feel stupid, ha ha.

[Django]

Hi Brad. Welcome aboard.

The search engine after our most recent board upgrade last month is barely functioning. There are lots and lots of B-24 threads on here, but finding them is incredibly tough at this point.

B-24s are defintely one of my favorites. You'll LOVE this one...
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=24362

This one is cool too.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31924&p=331203&hilit=privateer#p331203

Are you wanting to build yours as the Photo Queen? The F-7s had their bomb bay doors fixed in the closed position.

Here is another great thread that you'll love.
http://www.b24adlibs.com-a.googlepages. ... fiedb-24s2

And this is great as well. http://www.b24bestweb.com/ Here is the page for Photo Queen in the F-7 pages.
http://www.b24bestweb.com/f7-photoqueen1.htm
http://www.b24bestweb.com/f7-photoqueen2.htm
http://www.b24bestweb.com/f7-photoqueen3.htm

This site tells about the 20th Mapping squadron. Lots of (small) pics.
http://mysite.verizon.net/yenrav/20cms/aircraft.htm

[Django]

Oh, and as long as we're talking about F-7s, has anyone ever found a color photo of the blue paint before they went to NMF?

[Devilbrad]

Oh, and as long as we're talking about F-7s, has anyone ever found a color photo of the blue paint before they went to NMF?

Thanks for the links! I was just wondering the same thing about the blue. I wonder if it was similar to the B-25 Devil Dog's blue? I am still undecided about what plane to model. Oddly, I originally didn't want to do something common, but after finding out Ol 927 was the Continental Can Company executive ship that my father has told me about for as long as I can remember (he worked for CCC), I am thinking about modeling Ol 927. It would certainly be easy with all the great documentation Gary had provided us. I do want to keep the early front nose of the A-D.

[Django]

That would be awesome to do Ol' 927. I say do it!

[Second Air Force]

I found a CD of reconfiguration photos, so here are a couple of pictures Gary took of the bomb bay doors just after they arrived. You can easily see the rollers and their brackets. The rollers ran in the tracks riveted into the fuselage, and the sprockets meshed with the roller brackets to drive the doors open and closed.



If you're thinking of building a model of AM927 in CCC colors I have a few good shots of her in that scheme. It'll take a while to dig them out of storage, but I'd be glad to share.

Scott

[Devilbrad]

Thanks Scott. I have seen some shots of the CCC plane in other threads, and well, this is a Warbird, so I'd rather theme it as one. Maybe the next one?