U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:11 pm
Look at the wrinkles on this poor airplane! An earth orbit altering landing perhaps?
Re: U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:41 pm
Uh Oh!!! Here we go, gonna hear something about suck and blows now, now that I don't have one in my hangar I can pick sides.
Re: U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:06 pm
Obergrafeter wrote:Uh Oh!!! Here we go, gonna hear something about suck and blows now, now that I don't have one in my hangar I can pick sides.
Missing the hangar....sorta....poor Black Bird was covered in ice this week and Ztex sent me a picture to prove it.........bbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
but carry on with the fight with DZ....
Re: U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:24 pm
Actually, the old AZTEC (PA-23) came from the APACHE, which started out as a STINSON design (confusing ain't it?), has a welded tube center section so the tinwork being a bit wrinkled really ain't that big of a deal. It also has a huge bobweight on a steel pole to counterbalance the flying tail stabilizer, the steel pole is an inspection item because if it comes off, the stab will flutter uncontrollably until the stab comes off!!!!
I see it has an N number, so someone is out in front on the next type of 'WARBUG', plus he can bring 5 friends along.
I see it has an N number, so someone is out in front on the next type of 'WARBUG', plus he can bring 5 friends along.
Re: U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:49 pm
I know that its not structurally unsound, thus the smiley face. And there is no reflection on the pilots landing ability either, as I believe that those were there when he first got the airplane.
I'm well aware of the PA23 structure, but the steel tube doesn't extend that far back that far down. The steel structure terminates at the rear spar carry thru. The original Stinson design was a tube and fabric construction, but the Piper engineers and marketing folks just skinned it over with aluminum. To differenciate the differenences between the Apache and the Az-truck, the serial numbers of the Aztec's are 27-XXXX numbers vice the 23-XXXX numbers of the Apache's. Piper left the Aztec on the PA-23 type certificate because it wouldn't have to apply for a new TC, but there are many differences between the two. Liken that to the differences between the Cherokee 140 and a Turbo Arrow, both of those are PA-28's, but both very different airplanes.
It was cheaper for Piper to purchase Stinson and adopt the Apache as its own, than to develop a twin of its own. Kind of like Beech and the Hawker jet line.
I'm well aware of the PA23 structure, but the steel tube doesn't extend that far back that far down. The steel structure terminates at the rear spar carry thru. The original Stinson design was a tube and fabric construction, but the Piper engineers and marketing folks just skinned it over with aluminum. To differenciate the differenences between the Apache and the Az-truck, the serial numbers of the Aztec's are 27-XXXX numbers vice the 23-XXXX numbers of the Apache's. Piper left the Aztec on the PA-23 type certificate because it wouldn't have to apply for a new TC, but there are many differences between the two. Liken that to the differences between the Cherokee 140 and a Turbo Arrow, both of those are PA-28's, but both very different airplanes.
It was cheaper for Piper to purchase Stinson and adopt the Apache as its own, than to develop a twin of its own. Kind of like Beech and the Hawker jet line.
Re: U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:21 pm
Yeah, the 'elastic' TC encompasses several widly seen types like 737, 747, DC-9/MD80/MD-90/MD-95 (sorry, 717, never mind that was originally assigned to the KC-135 design). Boeing looked @ including a 757 style flight deck windows setup on the 700-900's to eliminate the 'flying inside a mailbox' view the crews have but the feds said that would be just a bit tooooooo far outside the original TC- so they compromised by eliminating the overhead 'eyebrow' windows on the 37? 
Spent some time massaging PA-23's while with ROBERTSON STOL in NooAwlunz. Always felt like you were working on a PACKARD or some other big, plush, sort of quaint vehicle.
Spent some time massaging PA-23's while with ROBERTSON STOL in NooAwlunz. Always felt like you were working on a PACKARD or some other big, plush, sort of quaint vehicle.
Re: U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:38 pm
Here some of Apaches with Air America:
http://www.utdallas.edu/library/collect ... /piper.pdf
http://www.utdallas.edu/library/collect ... /piper.pdf
Re: U-11A Photo
Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:48 pm
Gee, where was that picture shot? DZ was just pokin' fun at me, that's my plane, and he and I are long, long time friends. Love you too DZ!
Actually, I can't take five friends along, the U-11A was taken from the first of the Aztecs, which still had the Apache seating. I hear there's something in the regs that says you can only have five seats if you only have one door to get out of in case of emergency. The later models of the Aztec had a removable emergency made out of the left side middle window, so they put a sixth seat where the Apache luggage area was, and moved the luggage area to aft of the cabin. Then, to off-set the CG change of having 200 pounds that far back, they put the long nose on with the luggage compartment in it.
Yeah, I thought I had found a good poor man's warbird (or warbug). When I got the plane, it was in POOR shape. I've got twice what I could sell it for in it, but I'd venture to say it's in better shape than other Aztecs it's age. There was no way to get rid of the wrinkles without reskinning. I think they happened when (according to the guy I bought it from) a lineboy backed another plane into the right side of the tail.
In spite of what the Pacific Air Museum claims (that their member has the only flying Navy U-11A), there are no former military U-11A's flying. The records I have found indicate one was sold to the private sector, but it crashed. That might have stopped them from releasing the others. The U-11A in California is a 1961 model. The Navy bought 20 of the new Piper Aztecs in February, 1960. Their's were '60's, not '61's. The CA plane also has the Metco (?) wet wingtips, which alters the silhouette.
Actually, I believe the Navy Aztec had a 24 volt system, and I know they had passenger oxygen (which later became a civilian model option) and prop anti-ice. My plane's serial number is 27-927. My research shows the 8th plane shifted over to the Navy order was 27-928. I don't think you can get much closer to the real deal than that! So I bill my plane as the only authentic representation of the U-11A airframe flying.
It's nice having something about the size of a T-6, so it fits well in four-ship formations for fly-overs. We use the CAF's U-3A (which is really a Cessna 310) in formations as well. Of course we have to slow down for the T-6's! My fuel burn is about the same as a T-6, but as mentioned, the AzTruck can haul five, as opposed to the Texan's two, and gets there a lot faster! According to "the book", at 7000 feet, 75% power, and leaned out the best, you'll burn a combined 28gph, and have a true airspeed of 205mph. I've never got mine that lean, it's more like 32gph at altitude, and 34-36gph down low flying in an airshow...unless they stick be behind the T-6's! The U-birds these days are usually up on the top level of the stack, with the C-45's and T-28's. Much better speed match.
Of course I don't get to have the fun in the Vietnam act that the O-2's do.
Actually, I can't take five friends along, the U-11A was taken from the first of the Aztecs, which still had the Apache seating. I hear there's something in the regs that says you can only have five seats if you only have one door to get out of in case of emergency. The later models of the Aztec had a removable emergency made out of the left side middle window, so they put a sixth seat where the Apache luggage area was, and moved the luggage area to aft of the cabin. Then, to off-set the CG change of having 200 pounds that far back, they put the long nose on with the luggage compartment in it.
Yeah, I thought I had found a good poor man's warbird (or warbug). When I got the plane, it was in POOR shape. I've got twice what I could sell it for in it, but I'd venture to say it's in better shape than other Aztecs it's age. There was no way to get rid of the wrinkles without reskinning. I think they happened when (according to the guy I bought it from) a lineboy backed another plane into the right side of the tail.
In spite of what the Pacific Air Museum claims (that their member has the only flying Navy U-11A), there are no former military U-11A's flying. The records I have found indicate one was sold to the private sector, but it crashed. That might have stopped them from releasing the others. The U-11A in California is a 1961 model. The Navy bought 20 of the new Piper Aztecs in February, 1960. Their's were '60's, not '61's. The CA plane also has the Metco (?) wet wingtips, which alters the silhouette.
Actually, I believe the Navy Aztec had a 24 volt system, and I know they had passenger oxygen (which later became a civilian model option) and prop anti-ice. My plane's serial number is 27-927. My research shows the 8th plane shifted over to the Navy order was 27-928. I don't think you can get much closer to the real deal than that! So I bill my plane as the only authentic representation of the U-11A airframe flying.
It's nice having something about the size of a T-6, so it fits well in four-ship formations for fly-overs. We use the CAF's U-3A (which is really a Cessna 310) in formations as well. Of course we have to slow down for the T-6's! My fuel burn is about the same as a T-6, but as mentioned, the AzTruck can haul five, as opposed to the Texan's two, and gets there a lot faster! According to "the book", at 7000 feet, 75% power, and leaned out the best, you'll burn a combined 28gph, and have a true airspeed of 205mph. I've never got mine that lean, it's more like 32gph at altitude, and 34-36gph down low flying in an airshow...unless they stick be behind the T-6's! The U-birds these days are usually up on the top level of the stack, with the C-45's and T-28's. Much better speed match.
Of course I don't get to have the fun in the Vietnam act that the O-2's do.
Re: U-11A Photo
Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:53 pm
The original U-11A that I patterned my paint job after is at Pima. I've never put anything on my tail yet, but the original has a four digit tail number, that's all. The CA bird has "Alameda" painted under the tail number, as well as a yellow tail flash and yellow wing tips and spinner.
I'm wondering, should I paint just the numbers on the tail, or should I put some squadron's tail art work on it?
Suggestions? (please keep the suggestions clean, Cuz!)
I'm wondering, should I paint just the numbers on the tail, or should I put some squadron's tail art work on it?
Suggestions? (please keep the suggestions clean, Cuz!)
Re: U-11A Photo
Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:02 pm
How about "Guadalupe Armada"?
Re: U-11A Photo
Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:00 am
So...where was the photo taken? WOH '08? Just a guess, but the angle of the shot would be consistent with my arrival there, after leading the P-39 down from San Marcos. Did you get any shots of it's arrival, if that's where this was taken?
Oh, and DZ, thanks for the suggestion.
Oh, and DZ, thanks for the suggestion.