Full scale B-17 mock ups and other fiber glass replicas

[mustangdriver]

I have heard for years that there were plans to make a few full scale replicas of B-17's. Has anyone actually ever seen parts of this or anything. I seem to remember that the Tallichet B-17 was used. Also I thought this would be a good place to see some of the examples of mock ups that you guys have seen.

[Clifford Bossie]

I have heard for years that there were plans to make a few full scale replicas of B-17's. Has anyone actually ever seen parts of this or anything. I seem to remember that the Tallichet B-17 was used. Also I thought this would be a good place to see some of the examples of mock ups that you guys have seen.

I have not heard about B-17s, but there is the fiberglass B-24 at Lackland.

[JBoyle]

Sounds like a question for....Scott Thompson.

I've never heard of a B-17 replica or seen evidence of one in a film.
If they didn't use in in Tora or Memphis Belle, there is a good chance they don't exist (at least by the late 80s).

[Jerry O'Neill]

Tallichet did use "Memphis Belle" (movie one) to make molds for fiberglass replicas back in the late 90's.
I just don't know if anything was evr done with the molds that were created.
Jerry

[Avn-Tech]

Mustangfriver,

My partner (Leon Starr, in a company yet to be named) has been contacted several times requesting a full scale metal B-17 replica, but no deal has been completed. You can see the X-15 built by Leon at NASA Dryden (Edwards AFB) at:

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/24473/

We currently have a contract for a full scale (1:1) metal P-40B (museum Quality) model, which is under construction. When it gets close to looking like an airplane, I will post photos. Currenly he is working on the Prop (also to be used on my P-40 replicas, Movie props).

We are currently negotiating for an Museum Quality F6F and P-51 all metal 1:1 Replicas.

You can see some photos of my P-40 Movie Replicas (I also own the Yak-52 and Dissasembled Fouga) at:

http://mojaveskies.blogspot.com/2009/04 ... recon.html

Laterrrrrr
Avn-Tech

[Mark_Pilkington]

.
Full Scale Mockups do have their places in museums, and those created from mouldings of original aircraft such as Tallichet's P-40's and P-51s' or the spitfires in the UK show what can be achieved, others can be built as composites of fibreglass, timber, metal and even incorporate original structure like the Halifax at Yorkshire in the UK.

Other than providing for a polished bare metal finish, I am not convinced a metal FSM is actually going to meet or exceed the quality of the moulded fibre-glass examples, or is worth the trouble if moulds exist already? in this case it would be interesting to see the difference in the current P40-B project mentioned above, and the outcome of modifying an output of Tallichet's fibreglass P-40 E moulds?, and smiliarly with a future metal P-51 against the fibreglass examples already existing?

If the FSM is to be painted I cant see any benefit at all in trying to produce it in metal?, of course it is possible to create a non-flying replica based on the same patterns etc used by the reproduction / restoration businesses, fit out a cockpit etc ie duplicate the real structure, but not in airworthy materials, however that outcome is more a replica or reproduction than an FSM?

The advantage of the moulded FSM's is that they exactly duplicate the skin profiles, contours and rivet lines, the only way a 1:1 metal FSM can achieve that is to place sufficient structure to rivet and hold the skins in compound curves, some of which may have originally been achieved by heavy pressing not simply bending and riveting. Of course false rivet lines can be created without any frames or intercostals existing behind the skin, but that risks a wobbly skin that belly's in and out when touched. However the simple problem would be the cost in time and materials to duplicate the skin and rivet lines in metal.

In the end if significant compromises are taken to keep the costs and effort down, an FSM can start to look like a cartoon characture of the type rather than a museum quality display, while "compromised" FSMs can form the basis of film set extras in the background or for action/demolition shots, "if it does'nt look right" I am not sure they really have a place in museums given the space they take up, unless the type is essential to the purpose of the museum and cannot be presented or acquired in any other way?.

I look forward to how Avn-Tech and Leon will address some of those difficulties in the metal 1:1 full scale replicas being built to Museum Quality?, and look forward to seeing the photos of work in progress and the finished products, as I said earlier FSM's do have a valid role in museums.

Below is a scratch built DH-89 Dragon Rapide, and DH-61 Giant Moth both in Fibre-glass, the Dragon Rapide is outside Hotel at the former Speke Airport in the UK, while the DH-61 is in the Qantas museum at Longreach Australia.

A Fibreglass P-51 is in the American Air Museum at Duxford and a Spitfire on a roof in Canada - Fibreglass being the material of choice for outdoor FSM's, with many fibreglass Spitfires replacing real ones as gate guardians in the UK at RAF bases.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

[GARY HILTON]

Driving through Ontario, Ca....I was going to the airport to snag Pooner...I happened to see a bunch of P-80's and Me-109's ...fuselages only...sitting behind some commercial buildings....Pooner later informed me that these were Talichet's fiberglass replicas.....Over at Aero Trader in Chino, there are several fiberglass Half fuselage sections hanging on the walls of the Martin B-26, I believe these ultimate man cave items are for sale....
I believe that since Talichet owned a company that did all the replica aircraft for his restauraunt chain and others, and he owned a B-17, it seems very likely that there would exsist a mold for a B-17 laying around somewhere.....
The March AFB museum used to have a P-40 replica at their entrance...Which at first, I thought was the real deal....until getting right up on it...And behind the museum there, was an outfit dedicated to the P-38, and they had started putting together a fiberglass full scale P-38....There's a lot of iron that goes into them!
A fiberglass B-24???? What an undertaking!! I would love to see some pictures of that!! A couple of years back, I hauled a B-24 replica...full scale....to Yipsilati, Mi....it was of wood, foam, and metal construction....a Hollywood prop....for my .02 worth, the fiberglass ones are much better replicas, as they do have the accurate rivet lines, and aluminum panels are very much detected...

[Mark_Pilkington]

Gary,

Taking moulds of a full size aircraft such as a B-24 must be a big project in itself, let alone then building up an FSM from them.

These are "apparantly" photos of the Fibreglass B-24 FSM now at Lackland, although it is hard to tell it from the original static displayed original.













It replaced the "Blasted Event" now restored and inside the American Aviation Museum at Duxford

Here it is at Lackland in much the same colours as its replacement FSM, and in some ways hard to tell the difference with its painted out perspex etc, other than the missing upper turret and waist gun barrels, note the lower sitting fuselage of the FSM and the more substantial support under the rear fuselage - also the FSM has not been renamed "The Blasted Event" and instead that name is now carried by the B-24M at Castle USAFB.






Here it is restored and under cover in the UK as "Dugan".









Its not easy to pick the difference between the original aircraft and the FSM when compared together in the Lackland photos, although the mid upper turret on the FSM seems particularly "compromised"?

Obviously up close the restored aircraft is easily distinguishable from of its solid/painted glass FSM replacement.

Apparantly the FSM was moulded from Kermit Weeks "Dolectable Doris" now displayed as "Joe"




Here is photos of the FSM and the original aircraft at Lackland for comparison, and in some ways hard to tell the difference with its painted out perspex etc, other than the missing upper turret and waist gun barrels, note the lower sitting fuselage of the FSM and the more substantial support under the rear fuselage - also the FSM has not been renamed "The Blasted Event" and instead that name is now carried by the B-24M at Castle USAFB.

All in all an excellent FSM replica for external static display other than the high upper turret, and to bring an original into restoration and permanent undercover display.

I am sure a full metal FSM would be more difficult and costly to build.






Regards

Mark Pilkington

[Steve Nelson]

Does anyone know if the molds for the Lackaland replica still exist? It would be great to see a second replica made to replace the B-24 on outdoor display in Barksdale, and get that airframe out of the weather (maybe Willow Run, when Yankee eventually gets a new facility.) No offense to the folks who work hard to maintain museum aircraft, but it's always going to be a losing battle when they're displayed outoors.

SN

[mustangdriver]

Yeah it is always a tough road. I am thankful that they saved the ones on outdoor display, and some of them are very well cared for. But I feel that it is time to get at the very least the WWII and Korea era birds in from the cold and replaced by FSM

[PeterA]

Warsaw 2008.

PeterA

[p51]

Right after Memphis Belle came out, Tallichet’s 17 made a tour of the country and spent two weeks at my hometown due to an engine failure. I talked extensively with the people who were working on her. They told me only one engine was molded for mockup use on the movie. I clearly recall one of them telling me the block was almost ruined because there was so much mold debris afterward they almost weren’t able to remove all of it from the nooks and crannies.
Here’s a mockup most people don’t know about, a B-24 mockup at Sable Ranch in Santa Clarita, CA, made for the movie “Beautiful Dreamer” which I have yet to see:

I took a really good look at this one, one said was painted to match the CAF’s LB-30 for the paint job it had at that time. The other side was some odd camouflage scheme I’ve never seen before. It was made with plywood and had wood formers. The cockpit was totally open and had no interior. Clearly it was to be used as a background prop. It had no engines or landing gear attached when I saw it and the wings were lying on the ground next to the fuselage.
Ironically, the guy walking past it is [url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2457575/"]Hugh Daly[/url], who has done a lot of military related extra and speaking roles in Hollywood. We were both there for the filming of a “Mail Call” episode for the History Channel in 2005. None of the crew had any idea that B-24 was there until we went around a building and found it lying there.

[Steve Nelson]

That mockup is now in the possession of the Yankee Air Museum. I saw some parts of it tucked in the hangar among their collection of genuine B-24 bits last year.

SN

[RareBear]

There is a full-scale foam and fiberglass replica of a B-17 wing in the History Center in Orlando, FL. It's not bad from a distance, but looks crude up close.

Walt

[p51]

That mockup is now in the possession of the Yankee Air Museum. I saw some parts of it tucked in the hangar among their collection of genuine B-24 bits last year.

I’m glad to know it didn’t float away from the floods in CA. I wouldn’t have thought it would have gone that far as it wasn’t really the best replica of an airplane I ever saw up close. Any photos of it at the museum now? I couldn’t find any references to it other than here.
Not far away at the Sable Ranch, there was the back end of a C-119, with fire damages, I can only guess also used in the same movie. Netflix doesn’t have it, though, so I don’t know when I’ll finally get to see the movie it was made for.