What mixture of bits would make a successful Frankenracer?

[agent86]

Over the years there have been various attempts by some individuals to build a Super unlimited airracer by grafting various bits of different aircraft together in an effort to come up with the ultimate Air Racer.Things like Lear Jet Wings on a P-51 and a few others that my brain of advancing age cannot presently remember.what I do remember correctlyis that none of these has come even close to success and most have proven fatal to the unfortunate pilots of these"Frankenracers".Every now and then I have pondered what assortment of bits do I believe might work and make up a true" Uberracer"?One idea I had was to take an F-86 or similar airframe,Its got a high speed airfoil,its built like a brick S-house(the prior uberracers mostly suffered inflight disintergation i.e. wings fell off),strip it of all unneeded bits and such to lighten it and then Graft a Griffon or Similar engine with a contra rotating prop setup or maybe an R-4360 mounted mid fuselage with a P-39 style shaft and Hughes Hercules prop(sprucegoose)or maybe start with a FIAT 91 or whatever but use a newer airframe that was made to fly faster and stay away from grafting airframe components together.Any other Ideas ?Tim

[bdk]

Over the years there have been various attempts by some individuals to build a Super unlimited airracer by grafting various bits of different aircraft together in an effort to come up with the ultimate Air Racer.Things like Lear Jet Wings on a P-51 and a few others that my brain of advancing age cannot presently remember.

Wasn't Darryl Greenamyer working on a project with Sea Fury wings, an F-86 tail, and an R-4360?

Where do you draw the line though? What about the Red Baron, Dreadnought, or Rare Bear? They are all radically modified and feature larger engines than they were ever designed for.

[Joe Scheil]

The Best Idea.

Take a stock P-51. Add 1M. Modify like Strega. You (could) win.

Actually the real best idea is to build a new P-51 airframe and build it right as a racer from day 1. There is currently no package better...

But Bearcats look real good for second place.

[Steve T]

Hi all--

"Frankenracer"...I like it!

The Greenamyer beast referred to was, I think, called "Shockwave" and used Fury wing panels. I think it has not flown yet. There have been other "chimaeric" racers, too. Lear-winged P-51s have been mentioned; there have been at least two of those ("Vendetta" and "Miss Ashley II"). There have been drastic mods to several Yaks, too, to turn them into legit Gold contenders at Reno; probably the Smoot airplane is the best of those so far (and a very pretty machine to boot), but the wildest of them was Joe Kasperoff's "Mr. Awesome" (now renamed "Red Heat"), which in its ultimate form surely qualified as a "Frankenracer": stretched Yak fuselage, more or less normal Yak wings, R3350 in a Connie cowl up front, and tail feathers off a T-33. Looked like the Hughes H1 had been given the power-hitter treatment...Then there have been the new-builds, like Tsunami and the Pond Racer, but those are not what's being discussed here. One more "Frankenracer" from back in the 80s would be a Keith Riderish brute called "Wildfire", more or less scratchbuilt but using a Texan cockpit section. It was unsuccessful.

What would work best? Find a way to keep the highstrung Merlin from dying a premature death; and build a new "Strega" or "Dago Red". Hard to argue with demonstrated success! Alternatively, one could replicate P-51 wing panels and graft them to an F8F (which has a "slower" airfoil); or take a Fury (geez it hurts to say this) and modify it to more or less Tempest Mk.I configuration (wingroot rads, very clean cowl) but probably mounting a Griffon turning a contraprop...

Model projects, anyone!

S.

[HarvardIV]

Well, kind of off topic, but there are homegrown racers too like the Pond racer, and the "Machbuster". The Machbuster looks like a recordbreaker, and the Pond racer did pretty well.

How about Matt Jackson's conglomeration of I think F-86 wings, R-4360, and swept tail? I haven't heard any news on that one.

[N3Njeff]

I think replicating the P-51 frame would be a good idea, BUT I would rather see a different engine then adding to the pile of wore out merlins!! I think a nice PT-6 would do well in a Mustang.

[O.P.]

New build XP-67 with pimped out 2000+ hp merlins.


I Rule! Best airplane ever!

[Steve T]

OP--

Moonbat...Yum! The paintjob possibilities on the XP-67 design would be pretty wide, too.

In a similar (if even more exotic) vein...I have long wondered how the Vought F5U (Skimmer, aka Flying Flapjack) might have done in a pylon race. Anyone for knocking together a composite-structure fullscale twin-R2000 repro F5U with, say, C-130J props on it, to see how she'd do at Reno?

S.

[Chris Brame]

Back in the late seventies (when I was building more models) I had the idea to put a couple RR Darts on an F-82 airframe and fair over the right cockpit. The model didn't turn out so hot, but it's the thought that counts... Piper Twin Enforcer, anyone?

[agent86]

We are talking about the unlimiteds here fellows and they are in the land of the recriprocating(piston) momodom and Turbines are frowned upon by all!

[warbird51]

I have some drawings from the late John Crocker that depict a P-51D with a P-W 2800 powerplant. The drawing's look pretty interesting and it shows F-86 style speed brakes. The drawings don't indicate who the author was.

[O.P.]

OP--

Moonbat...Yum! The paintjob possibilities on the XP-67 design would be pretty wide, too.

In a similar (if even more exotic) vein...I have long wondered how the Vought F5U (Skimmer, aka Flying Flapjack) might have done in a pylon race. Anyone for knocking together a composite-structure fullscale twin-R2000 repro F5U with, say, C-130J props on it, to see how she'd do at Reno?

S.

Thats a pretty wierd idea, I like it! I just looked up the specs, D@mn!

Vought XF5U-1

Type: Fighter
Crew: 1, Pilot
Armament: six .50 cal machine guns
or four 20mm cannon
or two 1000-lb. bombs

Specifications:
Length: 28' 7.5"
Height: 14' 9"
Width: 32' 6"
Empty Weight: n/a
Gross Weight: 14550 lbs
Max Weight: n/a

Propulsion:
No. of Engines: 2
Powerplant: Pratt & Whitney R-2000-7
Horsepower 1600 hp each
Prop diameter: 16'

Performance:
Range: 910 miles
Max Speed: 504 mph at 20,000 ft.
Climb: 3000 ft/min at sea level
Ceiling: n/a

Remove all of the armor,weapons,ect....do the big engines, that thing should Sh*t and git!

[TheBoy]

Ok guys, I have to speak up now for the first time. No question about the ultimate unlimited. Take a two seat f7f, put a pair of tricked out 3350's on her, clean her up and loose a few pounds and bam! you get an unstoppable 550+ mph airplane. Here's the real beauty though, keep the back seater as a flight engineer and have him run all the engine stuff (ei ADI, spray bars throttles, props and everything) That leaves the pilot with one thing to do, just fly the perfect line!

[C170BDan]

Welcome to WIX, Ryan... I met you at Blakesburg last year... I flew my 170 in from Texas...

A friend and I have talked about the Super F7F for a couple years... like that idea. Makes me think of the Beech Grizzly... This might be alittle big for racing but it has two 3350s!!

[RyanShort1]

What about a modified DeHaviland Hornet?

Ryan