Warbird Flight Training
Sun May 01, 2005 7:09 pm
I'm an aspiring warbird owner. Other than your regular private and muti-engine licence, what is required to qualify to fly a warbird? I was curious for flying anything from a Mustang to the B-17's. I've heard of "high-performance" classes you can take, but are they required? Thanks for the help...
Sun May 01, 2005 8:13 pm
Cadillac_of_the_Sky:
If you want a T-6 first that requires a high performance (Over 200 hp cons't speed prop), and tail wheel sign off.
For the Mustang, I believe a type rating, and that requires a certain amount of hours. For the B-17, I believe a type rating and multi engine rating required.
If you want a T-6 first that requires a high performance (Over 200 hp cons't speed prop), and tail wheel sign off.
For the Mustang, I believe a type rating, and that requires a certain amount of hours. For the B-17, I believe a type rating and multi engine rating required.
Sun May 01, 2005 8:45 pm
1000 hours minimum PIC for an Experimental Type Rating (ETR). Not needed for the T-6, but for faster piston engine and turbine warbirds a type rating is required (T-28, L-39, Sea Fury, etc)
Mon May 02, 2005 11:02 am
It's called a rating, replacing the LOA's for Experimental Aircraft (Military Type) 1000 HP and above, Type Ratings are for aircraft 12,500 Lbs. and above.
Mon May 02, 2005 4:39 pm
Hi all!
I was under the impression that the minimums to fly/get type rated in a T28B, big engine T28, 1425 hp, was 500 hours PIC and the other assoiciated ratings, complex, high performance, ect. And I also thought that the "breaking point" for these type of "type ratings' was 800 hp and above needed the 500 hours.
Am I wrong? Any help appreiciated. The difference between 500 and a 1000 hours ,is...well.....years...
Steve, John, any insights/info/help, is very much apprieciated. I'm on the T28 path now and I don't want to waste too much time.
Thanks again Sirs!
Orvis
I was under the impression that the minimums to fly/get type rated in a T28B, big engine T28, 1425 hp, was 500 hours PIC and the other assoiciated ratings, complex, high performance, ect. And I also thought that the "breaking point" for these type of "type ratings' was 800 hp and above needed the 500 hours.
Am I wrong? Any help appreiciated. The difference between 500 and a 1000 hours ,is...well.....years...
Steve, John, any insights/info/help, is very much apprieciated. I'm on the T28 path now and I don't want to waste too much time.
Thanks again Sirs!
Orvis
Mon May 02, 2005 5:38 pm
Hi Orvis,
I understand that there is a proposal to reduce the total number of PIC hours needed from 1000 to 500, with the added requirement to have an instrument rating, but this is just a proposal and has not happened yet.
Experimental Type Ratings (ETRs) are issued by the FAA after submission of a form 8710, and are required for ex-military aircraft over 12,500, piston over 800hp or with a Vne above 250 kts, and all turbines.
I understand that there is a proposal to reduce the total number of PIC hours needed from 1000 to 500, with the added requirement to have an instrument rating, but this is just a proposal and has not happened yet.
Experimental Type Ratings (ETRs) are issued by the FAA after submission of a form 8710, and are required for ex-military aircraft over 12,500, piston over 800hp or with a Vne above 250 kts, and all turbines.
Mon May 02, 2005 6:39 pm
So with these ratings, do you get the hours and then have to take some sort of test. Or once you get the hours you get the rating automaticly? I would think the it would be the prior rather than the later. How are these ratings ranked, as far as a "ladder" type system? I'm sorry if I'm asking silly questions, I'm new to the licence thing. 
Mon May 02, 2005 10:01 pm
Well you get the hours, and the training, and the test.... 
For example for the instrument rating I'm finishing up, you need the
obvious training, a written test, and various kinds of flights. If you
just got your private and go immediately on to your instrument, the
harder part is really getting all the time you need for
PIC (Pilot in command) cross country time - xcountry defined as
taking off and flying somewhere and touching down 50 nautical miles
away. You don't need an instrument rating to get a T-6, its another
checkout / certificate if you will, actually entry in the log book!
essentially - training time - no formal FAA test required.
The big thing is if you're a newly minted pilot is building your time - since
getting insured is the hardest part - and they're looking at ratings you
have, training, type of aircraft you're flying and time in type.
I have to admit, the tailwheel certificate made me a much better pilot
after getting my private, particularly sharpening up my landings, slips,
and aircraft handling, but the instrument really makes you get the feel
of your aircraft and what it takes to make it fly at particular speeds, turns, and awareness that get you to that point of the final act of touching
touching down. It too really really does make you a better more aware
pilot than I had originally thought it would.
And yes, I kinda hope they would take it down from 1000 to 500, as
it would be years to build that kind of time. Considering unless you're
lucky and happen to be particularly fortunate, you won't often be owning a
T6 until your late 30's or 40's, and then you'd probably want to have
started flying in your 20's.... If you figure an average pilot with a full
day job (and did I say family?) may be lucky to get up once or twice a week say for an hour or two, that often builds up to less than
100 hrs /year. At my rate they'll insure me with a T6 when I'm almost
50, unless I hit the lottery and can quit the day job. Not to mention
getting the kids college funds topped off beforehand.
henning
For example for the instrument rating I'm finishing up, you need the
obvious training, a written test, and various kinds of flights. If you
just got your private and go immediately on to your instrument, the
harder part is really getting all the time you need for
PIC (Pilot in command) cross country time - xcountry defined as
taking off and flying somewhere and touching down 50 nautical miles
away. You don't need an instrument rating to get a T-6, its another
checkout / certificate if you will, actually entry in the log book!
essentially - training time - no formal FAA test required.
The big thing is if you're a newly minted pilot is building your time - since
getting insured is the hardest part - and they're looking at ratings you
have, training, type of aircraft you're flying and time in type.
I have to admit, the tailwheel certificate made me a much better pilot
after getting my private, particularly sharpening up my landings, slips,
and aircraft handling, but the instrument really makes you get the feel
of your aircraft and what it takes to make it fly at particular speeds, turns, and awareness that get you to that point of the final act of touching
touching down. It too really really does make you a better more aware
pilot than I had originally thought it would.
And yes, I kinda hope they would take it down from 1000 to 500, as
it would be years to build that kind of time. Considering unless you're
lucky and happen to be particularly fortunate, you won't often be owning a
T6 until your late 30's or 40's, and then you'd probably want to have
started flying in your 20's.... If you figure an average pilot with a full
day job (and did I say family?) may be lucky to get up once or twice a week say for an hour or two, that often builds up to less than
100 hrs /year. At my rate they'll insure me with a T6 when I'm almost
50, unless I hit the lottery and can quit the day job. Not to mention
getting the kids college funds topped off beforehand.
henning
Mon May 02, 2005 11:26 pm
OK, Warbird Pilot School 101…Class, be seated.
1. Has everyone got at least a Private Pilot’s License and 500 hours of PIC time for pistons and 1000 hours for jets? If yes go to question #2. If no, come back when you do.
2. Does everyone have an instrument rating? It isn’t required, but the insurance company isn’t going to make life easy for you if you haven’t got one. Also, a Commercial ticket and Multi Engine Rating will also help. Everyone proceed to question #3.
3. First, who wants to fly a T-28 or one of the classic jets? OK, all you who raised your hands proceed to a qualified instructor. You will then embark on approx. 3-5 days of ground school and 10-15 hours of flight training, followed by a checkride to ATP standards. Have fun, and fly safe.
4. How many future Mustang pilots do we have? One, two, three…OK, how much tail dragger time do you have? All those with more than 100 hours in tail draggers proceed to question #5. All others come back when you do.
5. How much time in the T-6 do you have? All those with more than 25 hours in the T-6 proceed to #6. All others come back when you do.
6. Have you flown the T-6 from the rear cockpit, and if so are you comfortable and competent? If yes, proceed to #7, if no come back when you do.
7. OK, you’re a 500+ hour pilot, with multiple ratings and experience. You’re proficient in tail draggers, and are comfortable in the front and rear cockpit of the T-6. You will now embark on approx. a week of ground school to cover major systems and components, engine operations and limitations, normal and emergency operating procedures, maintenance, etc. After that you will begin dual training that will include basic handling, stalls, unusual attitude recovery, aerobatics, and a sh*t load of take offs and landings. All must be performed to ATP standards.
Poof, you're a Mustang pilot.
See, that wasn't so bad...
1. Has everyone got at least a Private Pilot’s License and 500 hours of PIC time for pistons and 1000 hours for jets? If yes go to question #2. If no, come back when you do.
2. Does everyone have an instrument rating? It isn’t required, but the insurance company isn’t going to make life easy for you if you haven’t got one. Also, a Commercial ticket and Multi Engine Rating will also help. Everyone proceed to question #3.
3. First, who wants to fly a T-28 or one of the classic jets? OK, all you who raised your hands proceed to a qualified instructor. You will then embark on approx. 3-5 days of ground school and 10-15 hours of flight training, followed by a checkride to ATP standards. Have fun, and fly safe.
4. How many future Mustang pilots do we have? One, two, three…OK, how much tail dragger time do you have? All those with more than 100 hours in tail draggers proceed to question #5. All others come back when you do.
5. How much time in the T-6 do you have? All those with more than 25 hours in the T-6 proceed to #6. All others come back when you do.
6. Have you flown the T-6 from the rear cockpit, and if so are you comfortable and competent? If yes, proceed to #7, if no come back when you do.
7. OK, you’re a 500+ hour pilot, with multiple ratings and experience. You’re proficient in tail draggers, and are comfortable in the front and rear cockpit of the T-6. You will now embark on approx. a week of ground school to cover major systems and components, engine operations and limitations, normal and emergency operating procedures, maintenance, etc. After that you will begin dual training that will include basic handling, stalls, unusual attitude recovery, aerobatics, and a sh*t load of take offs and landings. All must be performed to ATP standards.
Poof, you're a Mustang pilot.
See, that wasn't so bad...
Last edited by srpatterson on Tue May 03, 2005 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon May 02, 2005 11:32 pm
Hi Steve:
Good explanation, you mean you can't wave a magic wand and make us all qualified?
Good explanation, you mean you can't wave a magic wand and make us all qualified?
Mon May 02, 2005 11:40 pm
Uh oh! Where is that TF8F Bearcat available again?srpatterson wrote:After that you will begin dual training that will include basic handling, stalls, unusual attitude recovery, aerobatics, and a sh*t load of take offs and landings. All must be performed to ATP standards.
Mon May 02, 2005 11:44 pm
bdk wrote:Uh oh! Where is that TF8F Bearcat available again?srpatterson wrote:After that you will begin dual training that will include basic handling, stalls, unusual attitude recovery, aerobatics, and a sh*t load of take offs and landings. All must be performed to ATP standards.
Good question. If there is no dual control model of the aircraft you want to fly you must...A) Have experience in a similiar aircraft (Wildcat, Corsair, Sea Fury, etc), or B) Get a checkout in a dual control fighter, then proceed to solo in your chosen aircraft.
Tue May 03, 2005 1:17 am
Thanks Steve!
Ahhhhhhh, don't know what to say, but I believe you. I'm going to have to nut up and change the "Plan" to include 1000 hours, on your path. The "Plan" was pretty much identical, sans hours. I've been looking/ reading FAR's and all since your first post. It looks right (I'm not saying you're wrong). All of the cats I fly with have been saying 500 PIC. They are also very high time civilian and military dudes/dudette. I'm thinking that time wasn't an issue when they went for their T28 LOA/Type rating because they had it all (time and type wise)already. I'm trying to figure out where the 500 came from. It's probably a vain attempt to do the 500 instead of the 1000 on my part. 500 for piston,,,not turbine...does it make a difference?...I know, I'm reaching there.
Thanks again Steve.
(BTW, on the new timeline, I'm gonna be bummin a Seafury checkout in about 6 or 7ish years. Just sayin...if you're up up for a couple ten beers, after the checkout of course, I got the gas,oil and the beer)
Ahhhhhhh, don't know what to say, but I believe you. I'm going to have to nut up and change the "Plan" to include 1000 hours, on your path. The "Plan" was pretty much identical, sans hours. I've been looking/ reading FAR's and all since your first post. It looks right (I'm not saying you're wrong). All of the cats I fly with have been saying 500 PIC. They are also very high time civilian and military dudes/dudette. I'm thinking that time wasn't an issue when they went for their T28 LOA/Type rating because they had it all (time and type wise)already. I'm trying to figure out where the 500 came from. It's probably a vain attempt to do the 500 instead of the 1000 on my part. 500 for piston,,,not turbine...does it make a difference?...I know, I'm reaching there.
Thanks again Steve.
(BTW, on the new timeline, I'm gonna be bummin a Seafury checkout in about 6 or 7ish years. Just sayin...if you're up up for a couple ten beers, after the checkout of course, I got the gas,oil and the beer)
Tue May 03, 2005 7:17 am
I know what you mean about soloing a single seater.
My first fligh in a Piper Pawnee was also my first solo tail wheel flight.
I sure miss flying the 185 though...
My first fligh in a Piper Pawnee was also my first solo tail wheel flight.
I sure miss flying the 185 though...
Tue May 03, 2005 10:00 am
The 500 hrs TT that the T-28 guys were quoting you was correct back when LOAs existed. I guess they've changed that now. Back in the day, it was 500 hrs for the pistons and 1000hrs for the jets. Too bad if its changed, it puts me getting a T-28 ETR off for another few years as well (just when I'm breaking 500 too).
Jason
Jason