USAAF Spitfire wing roundel/star

[PeterA]

Just batting a few ideas around for a potential scheme for new Spitfire.

Scale 1:1

It is a N. African USAAF Spitfire.

It will have the US white star in the blue diameter with a 2 inch yellow outer.

I see variations in photos where RAF aircraft have been locally modified to US livery.

Can anybody please tell me the 'official' rationale for the diameters and positioning of the US wing marking on Spitfire or a P-40 for that matter.

I see references to percentage of chord, outside diameters in 5 inch increments, tangents to aileron cut out, distance from the tip rather than the aircraft centre line....and on and...

Any guidance greatly appreciated as it is a bit confusing for a UK resident.

PeterA

[Cadillac_of_the_Sky]

PeterA,
I have pictures of American Spitfires I could post for you. They are from the 31st FG, specificly the 307th, 308th and 309th squadrons. The pictures are from Italy and Southern Europe, but I believe they opperated out of Africa before the jump across the Med. I don't have any specs of the paint scheme though. Let me know if you'd like the pics. Cheers!

[PeterA]

Shame on you Americans.

Is there nobody out there who can guide me on the official dimensions and positioning of the US star on the wings of fighters in WWII.

The full size templates are complete for the fuselage, the paint is on order, spray preparation begins early June, first flight thereafter.

I would have thought the WIX forum would be awash with knowledgeable modellers and Warbird crew who would have this information at their fingertips.

I'm betting the minute we paint it an inch or so out of true, it will generate a comment.

So come on you guys, this is a British Spitfire that is going to grace US skies in US livery. It is not too late to revert to RAF roundels.

PeterA (Brit)

[paulmcmillan]

Personally I think they should paint it RED with and have the words COCA-COLA on the side!

ONLY Joking!

Paul

[bdk]

There is a technical order with all the ratios. I don't have it though...

[bdk]

Oops! I found something online...

http://community.webshots.com/photo/339154335/347644369qAkPQZ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/339154335/347644394yOSdee
http://community.webshots.com/photo/339154335/347645575aqzslP
http://community.webshots.com/photo/339154335/347645613plRwEz

Is this helpful????? If so I can send you the entire document (about 15 megabytes). It is current issue, but in general I doubt it has changed too much.

[Steven M. Dennis]

There is a technical order with all the ratios. I don't have it though...

Peter,

I have a copy of Technical Order No. 07-1-1C dated July 3, 1943 that has a pretty good explanation of all the dimensions, with diagrams showing the radius, distance from edges of the wing, etc. of the "Cocarde". I believe I might even have an ammendment (T.O. no 07-1-1D dated September 24, 1943) in one of my Fairchild PT-19 restoration books that I would be happy to copy and send to you.

I think Brandon is correct though, after looking at the stuff he has posted, not a lot has changed. I might have a few more diagrams than the ones shown with his info.

Let me know if I can help you out with your Spitfire project....

Steve

[TonyA]

Is Roger Freeman's book "Camouflage and Markings USAAF 1937-1945" any use?

I haven't looked in great detail but it certainly gives quite detailed descriptions of marks and positions for some Spitfire schemes. This includes, for instance, wing roundel centre 72" from wing tip, fuselage roundel centre 53" behind opening part of cockpit canopy, etc. etc.

[bdk]

Wouldn't the star and bar be placed over the top of the existing British roundel unless the entire aircraft was repainted?

[PeterA]

Wouldn't the star and bar be placed over the top of the existing British roundel unless the entire aircraft was repainted?

In some photos, clearly yes, smaller and concentric. In other photos the circle is smaller and eccentric. We have no wings views of the actual Spitfire whose livery we are replicating.

The fuselage star clearly does fill in the RAF roundel leaving the 2 inch RAF outer yellow. I believe this would make the blue star diameter a non standard dimension, but that is how it was.

Many thanks to all you 'chaps' who are responding. Much appreciated.

PeterA

[TonyA]

From the illustration in Roger Freeman's book:
"Roundel on fuselage converted by superimposing white star and filling in blue disc. Yellow surround usually retained, if not, painted out with matching camouflage colours. 36" outside diameter yellow, 32" outside diameter blue"

Don't know if that helps