Ideas for a new WWII air war movie
Fri May 20, 2005 10:02 am
Seeing these 109 videos this week makes me think it would be great to see a new WWII motion picture based on the air war. Something made with less CGI special effects and more using restored warbirds. A remake of the movie 12 O'Clock High directed by Steven Spielberg maybe. Any other ideas?
Fri May 20, 2005 11:12 am
How about Battle of Britain?
Midway?
Flying Tigers?
Mudge the geezer
Midway?
Flying Tigers?
Mudge the geezer
Fri May 20, 2005 11:28 am
How about this from the official report of a Special Duties Wellington sortie on 3rd Dec 1942.
It's one script that you cannot say is too far fetched to be believed!
Special duty flight.
Operation took place across the N. coast of France to an area near to Frankfurt. The aircraft was engaged on the 18th sortie on a particular investigation, which necessitated the aircraft being intercepted by an enemy nightfighter and up to this sortie, all efforts to get such an interception had failed.
At 04:31 hrs, the aircraft was in position 4954N 0739E and set course for position 5030N 0737E. The Special Operator, P/O Jordan, had been reporting that he had been receiving signals on his special wireless equipment which he thought were the ones requiring to be investigated. He warned the crew to expect a fighter attack. On this Northerly leg the signals grew stronger and Jordan repeated his warning. A code had previously been arranged, so that if the signals were picked up, the frequency would immediately be sent back to base, it being absolutely vital that this information should reach base at all costs.
Position 5030N 0737E was reached at 04:42 and the aircraft set course for the homeward leg. The Special Operator passed the coded message to the Wireless Operator for transmission to base, giving in the message the required frequency and that this frequency was very probably the correct one. Jordan warned the crew that his receiver was being saturated and to expect an attack at any moment. Almost simultaneously the aircraft was hit by a burst of cannon fire. The rear gunner gave a fighter control commentary during the attack and identified the enemy as a JU88. Violent corkscrew turns were used as evasive action. Jordan was hit in the arm on this first attack and realising that now there was no doubt at all about the signal being the correct one, he changed the coded message, a change that would tell base that the frequency given was absolutely correct and that it applied without a doubt to the signal being investigated. Although hit in the arm, he still continued to work his sets and to note further characteristics of the signal. The Rear Gunner fired about 1,000 rounds on this attack, but his turret was hit and made completely unserviceable and he was wounded in the shoulder. On the second attack, Jordan was hit in the jaw, but he still continued to work his sets and follow the results and told the captain and crew from which side to expect the next attack.
On the third attack, the front turret was hit and the Front Gunner wounded in the leg. The Wireless Operator went forward to let him out of the turret but he was hit in both legs by an exploding shell and had to return to his seat. P/O Barry, Navigator, then went forward and let Grant out of the turret. Jordan was hit once more, this time in the eye, and although he continued operating his equipment and noting further details of the signal, he realised that he could not continue with the investigation much longer, owing to his condition and seeing that his inter-comm had also been shot away, he went forward and brought back the Navigator and tried to explain to him how to continue operating the equipment and so bring back some more valuable information. By this time he was almost blind but although he tried hard to show Barry what to do, he realised that it was an impossible task and in the end gave up the attempt.
F/Sgt Vachon had by this time come out of the rear turret and had taken up position in the Astro Hatch, from where he continued to give evasive control but he was hit again in the hand and Barry went back and took over from him in the Astro Dome. During this period the aircraft had lost height from about 14,000 feet down to 500 feet above the ground, violent evasive action still being taken by the captain. After 10 or 12 attacks the enemy aircraft broke off his engagement and disappeared.
Hits had been scored on the Wellington in 5 or 6 of the attacks, resulting in the following damage:- 1. Starboard Throttle Control shot away (starboard engine stuck at +3 boost all the way home). 2. Port Throttle jammed. 3. Front and rear turrets unserviceable. 4. Starboard Ailerons unserviceable and trimming tabs having no effect at all. 5. Air Speed Indicator reading zero in both positions owing to the pitot head or pipes being holed. 6. Starboard petrol tank holed. 7. Fabric shot and torn away on starboard side of fuselage. 8. Hydraulics unserviceable, 9. Both engines running irregularly. The Wireless Operator Sgt Bigoray, in spite of his injuries, transmitted the coded message back to base but receiving no "R" for it continued to send it in the hopes that it would be picked up. It was received at 05:05 hours.
The Captain kept the aircraft on the course for home and managed to climb up to 5,000 feet, at which height he came back. At 06:45 hours the aircraft crossed the coast at about 10 miles N.E. of Dunkirk, where searchlights tried to pick it out but these were dodged by evasive action and coming down low over the sea. When they were switched off, the Pilot again managed to gain height. The Wireless Operator put the I.F.F. on to Stud 3, sent out an S.O.S. and a message to the effect that they had been attacked by an enemy aircraft. He again transmitted the coded message in case it had not been received the first time. At approximately 07:20 hours the English coast was reached. The Pilot tested the landing light to see if he could ditch using it, but decided it was impossible. He decided to wait for daylight before ditching and asked the crew if anyone preferred to bail out rather than ditch. The Wireless Operator stated that he preferred to jump, as one of his legs had stiffened up to such an extent that he thought he would not be able to climb out of the aircraft in the water. He made his way to the escape hatch in the rear of the fuselage, from where he intended to jump, but having reached that position he remembered that he had not clamped down the transmitting key and in spite of his injury he returned to his set, clamped the key down, and warned the crew not to touch it. He jumped out over Ramsgate and made a safe landing.
The pilot ditched the aircraft at approximately 08:24 hours about 200 yards off the coast at Deal. The dinghy inflated but had been holed by cannon fire. The Special Operator tried to make it airtight by holding some of the holes but it was impossible and the crew got out of the dinghy and climbed onto the aircraft. About 5 minutes later a small rowing boat appeared, took them off and rowed ashore.
The following signal has been received from the Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall Sir Charles Portal, G.C.B, D.S.O., M.C., for P/O Jordan, P/O Paulton, P/O Barry, F/Sgt Bigoray, F/Sgt Grant, F/Sgt Vachon:-
"I have just read report of your investigation flight carried out on Thursday, 3rd. December and should like to congratulate you all on a splendid performance."
AIR27/1156
It's one script that you cannot say is too far fetched to be believed!
Special duty flight.
Operation took place across the N. coast of France to an area near to Frankfurt. The aircraft was engaged on the 18th sortie on a particular investigation, which necessitated the aircraft being intercepted by an enemy nightfighter and up to this sortie, all efforts to get such an interception had failed.
At 04:31 hrs, the aircraft was in position 4954N 0739E and set course for position 5030N 0737E. The Special Operator, P/O Jordan, had been reporting that he had been receiving signals on his special wireless equipment which he thought were the ones requiring to be investigated. He warned the crew to expect a fighter attack. On this Northerly leg the signals grew stronger and Jordan repeated his warning. A code had previously been arranged, so that if the signals were picked up, the frequency would immediately be sent back to base, it being absolutely vital that this information should reach base at all costs.
Position 5030N 0737E was reached at 04:42 and the aircraft set course for the homeward leg. The Special Operator passed the coded message to the Wireless Operator for transmission to base, giving in the message the required frequency and that this frequency was very probably the correct one. Jordan warned the crew that his receiver was being saturated and to expect an attack at any moment. Almost simultaneously the aircraft was hit by a burst of cannon fire. The rear gunner gave a fighter control commentary during the attack and identified the enemy as a JU88. Violent corkscrew turns were used as evasive action. Jordan was hit in the arm on this first attack and realising that now there was no doubt at all about the signal being the correct one, he changed the coded message, a change that would tell base that the frequency given was absolutely correct and that it applied without a doubt to the signal being investigated. Although hit in the arm, he still continued to work his sets and to note further characteristics of the signal. The Rear Gunner fired about 1,000 rounds on this attack, but his turret was hit and made completely unserviceable and he was wounded in the shoulder. On the second attack, Jordan was hit in the jaw, but he still continued to work his sets and follow the results and told the captain and crew from which side to expect the next attack.
On the third attack, the front turret was hit and the Front Gunner wounded in the leg. The Wireless Operator went forward to let him out of the turret but he was hit in both legs by an exploding shell and had to return to his seat. P/O Barry, Navigator, then went forward and let Grant out of the turret. Jordan was hit once more, this time in the eye, and although he continued operating his equipment and noting further details of the signal, he realised that he could not continue with the investigation much longer, owing to his condition and seeing that his inter-comm had also been shot away, he went forward and brought back the Navigator and tried to explain to him how to continue operating the equipment and so bring back some more valuable information. By this time he was almost blind but although he tried hard to show Barry what to do, he realised that it was an impossible task and in the end gave up the attempt.
F/Sgt Vachon had by this time come out of the rear turret and had taken up position in the Astro Hatch, from where he continued to give evasive control but he was hit again in the hand and Barry went back and took over from him in the Astro Dome. During this period the aircraft had lost height from about 14,000 feet down to 500 feet above the ground, violent evasive action still being taken by the captain. After 10 or 12 attacks the enemy aircraft broke off his engagement and disappeared.
Hits had been scored on the Wellington in 5 or 6 of the attacks, resulting in the following damage:- 1. Starboard Throttle Control shot away (starboard engine stuck at +3 boost all the way home). 2. Port Throttle jammed. 3. Front and rear turrets unserviceable. 4. Starboard Ailerons unserviceable and trimming tabs having no effect at all. 5. Air Speed Indicator reading zero in both positions owing to the pitot head or pipes being holed. 6. Starboard petrol tank holed. 7. Fabric shot and torn away on starboard side of fuselage. 8. Hydraulics unserviceable, 9. Both engines running irregularly. The Wireless Operator Sgt Bigoray, in spite of his injuries, transmitted the coded message back to base but receiving no "R" for it continued to send it in the hopes that it would be picked up. It was received at 05:05 hours.
The Captain kept the aircraft on the course for home and managed to climb up to 5,000 feet, at which height he came back. At 06:45 hours the aircraft crossed the coast at about 10 miles N.E. of Dunkirk, where searchlights tried to pick it out but these were dodged by evasive action and coming down low over the sea. When they were switched off, the Pilot again managed to gain height. The Wireless Operator put the I.F.F. on to Stud 3, sent out an S.O.S. and a message to the effect that they had been attacked by an enemy aircraft. He again transmitted the coded message in case it had not been received the first time. At approximately 07:20 hours the English coast was reached. The Pilot tested the landing light to see if he could ditch using it, but decided it was impossible. He decided to wait for daylight before ditching and asked the crew if anyone preferred to bail out rather than ditch. The Wireless Operator stated that he preferred to jump, as one of his legs had stiffened up to such an extent that he thought he would not be able to climb out of the aircraft in the water. He made his way to the escape hatch in the rear of the fuselage, from where he intended to jump, but having reached that position he remembered that he had not clamped down the transmitting key and in spite of his injury he returned to his set, clamped the key down, and warned the crew not to touch it. He jumped out over Ramsgate and made a safe landing.
The pilot ditched the aircraft at approximately 08:24 hours about 200 yards off the coast at Deal. The dinghy inflated but had been holed by cannon fire. The Special Operator tried to make it airtight by holding some of the holes but it was impossible and the crew got out of the dinghy and climbed onto the aircraft. About 5 minutes later a small rowing boat appeared, took them off and rowed ashore.
The following signal has been received from the Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshall Sir Charles Portal, G.C.B, D.S.O., M.C., for P/O Jordan, P/O Paulton, P/O Barry, F/Sgt Bigoray, F/Sgt Grant, F/Sgt Vachon:-
"I have just read report of your investigation flight carried out on Thursday, 3rd. December and should like to congratulate you all on a splendid performance."
AIR27/1156
BoB
Fri May 20, 2005 11:43 am
How about Battle of Britain?
Agreed, I wonder how many flyable Heinkels and Junkers could be assembled.
Fri May 20, 2005 11:58 am
I was thinking Midway also. Flyinig Tigers would be great also.
What about the Cactus Air Force? That would be a great story.
The Turkey shoot?
Any good low level anti-shipping work out there?
What about the Cactus Air Force? That would be a great story.
The Turkey shoot?
Any good low level anti-shipping work out there?
New WWII movie ideas
Fri May 20, 2005 12:02 pm
Many years ago (1997-1998?) I heard something about several Mustangs being in Europe to film a movie about the WWII career of Chuck Yeager. Any truth to those rumors?
My ideas are:
B-17s and P-38s flying missions out of North Africa and Italy-no big story line, just one of the untold stories (in this case my first personal choice with respect to my late father who had 50 missions with the 301st BG, one in which they were attacked by an Italian captured P-38G).
A Zemke's Wolfpack or Robert Johnson P-47 movie!
An on-site South Pacific (New Guinea) B-24 movie with P-38 fighter action (Bong, McGuire, etc. thrown in). This would necessitate Hollywood sponsoring Kermit and maybe a few other B-24 airworthy restorations to be done. Use the Jolly Rogers 90th BG as the focal Bomb Group. Very cool!
and lastly...Not quite WWII but using the warbirds never-the less:
A Thompson Trophy Race/Cook Cleland story movie covering the years 1946-1949. F2G race #57 of course would need to be in it maybe repainted a few times to represent other F2Gs. With it the F2G #74 at least taxiing, the #45 scoopless P-51D N13Y restored, a re-created Cobra II using one of several P-39 airframes available, a sprinlking in a few race painted P-38s and Cobras in the background shots, and somehow a recreated Beguine.
I'd camp out for weeks like a Star Wars junkie to see the first showing of that one!!!
My ideas are:
B-17s and P-38s flying missions out of North Africa and Italy-no big story line, just one of the untold stories (in this case my first personal choice with respect to my late father who had 50 missions with the 301st BG, one in which they were attacked by an Italian captured P-38G).
A Zemke's Wolfpack or Robert Johnson P-47 movie!
An on-site South Pacific (New Guinea) B-24 movie with P-38 fighter action (Bong, McGuire, etc. thrown in). This would necessitate Hollywood sponsoring Kermit and maybe a few other B-24 airworthy restorations to be done. Use the Jolly Rogers 90th BG as the focal Bomb Group. Very cool!
and lastly...Not quite WWII but using the warbirds never-the less:
A Thompson Trophy Race/Cook Cleland story movie covering the years 1946-1949. F2G race #57 of course would need to be in it maybe repainted a few times to represent other F2Gs. With it the F2G #74 at least taxiing, the #45 scoopless P-51D N13Y restored, a re-created Cobra II using one of several P-39 airframes available, a sprinlking in a few race painted P-38s and Cobras in the background shots, and somehow a recreated Beguine.
I'd camp out for weeks like a Star Wars junkie to see the first showing of that one!!!
Fri May 20, 2005 12:18 pm
Hi all--
How very suitable for somebody named "Thompson" to beat me to the punch regarding a postwar-NAR movie!
My specific idea (as many WIXers will have seen...I post the thing whenever somebody gives me the chance) is the dramatic story of the final Cleveland NAR, the 1949 edition. That tale has it all: high-buck team run by a glamorous woman aviator, "grassroots" rough-and-ready team run by a Navy strike pilot, all manner of intrigue (and, some sources hint, at least one clandestine romance); a tragic end to the main event (this, of course, would be the main argument for NOT making such a film--would have to be handled very deftly); and the low-buck team wins the day, albeit under a cloud. And of course all those Warbird racers: huge charisma. Several '49 entrants survive, with at least a couple flyable. It would be necessary to recreate an F2G and a P-51C, though...what a pity... 
Anyway, to return to the actual point of the thread...
1. Spencer Dunmore's book "Ace"; a kind of World War II "The Blue Max", about a Luftwaffe ace's career from 1939 to 45; composited details from several aces' careers, and space in the film for everything from a 109E to a Dora 190 and a 262...
2. The Soviet female fighter regiments in WWII: anybody ever see a "Chick Flick" full of Warbirds before??
3. Martin Caidin's book "Whip"; about a fictionalized version of the 345BG "Air Apaches" in the Pacific, so a host of bat- and dragon-nosed strafer B-25s, plus their IJN/IJAAF opposition...
4. Also Caidin (and at one point actually slated for filming), the book "The Last Dogfight", about a P-40/P-38 jock and his Zero-flying arch-rival. OK, the title would have to go; but the book's a great read. All three of the books I note are very "cinematic".
Cheers
Steve the would-be film mogul
How very suitable for somebody named "Thompson" to beat me to the punch regarding a postwar-NAR movie!
My specific idea (as many WIXers will have seen...I post the thing whenever somebody gives me the chance) is the dramatic story of the final Cleveland NAR, the 1949 edition. That tale has it all: high-buck team run by a glamorous woman aviator, "grassroots" rough-and-ready team run by a Navy strike pilot, all manner of intrigue (and, some sources hint, at least one clandestine romance); a tragic end to the main event (this, of course, would be the main argument for NOT making such a film--would have to be handled very deftly); and the low-buck team wins the day, albeit under a cloud. And of course all those Warbird racers: huge charisma. Several '49 entrants survive, with at least a couple flyable. It would be necessary to recreate an F2G and a P-51C, though...what a pity...
Anyway, to return to the actual point of the thread...
1. Spencer Dunmore's book "Ace"; a kind of World War II "The Blue Max", about a Luftwaffe ace's career from 1939 to 45; composited details from several aces' careers, and space in the film for everything from a 109E to a Dora 190 and a 262...
2. The Soviet female fighter regiments in WWII: anybody ever see a "Chick Flick" full of Warbirds before??
3. Martin Caidin's book "Whip"; about a fictionalized version of the 345BG "Air Apaches" in the Pacific, so a host of bat- and dragon-nosed strafer B-25s, plus their IJN/IJAAF opposition...
4. Also Caidin (and at one point actually slated for filming), the book "The Last Dogfight", about a P-40/P-38 jock and his Zero-flying arch-rival. OK, the title would have to go; but the book's a great read. All three of the books I note are very "cinematic".
Cheers
Steve the would-be film mogul
Fri May 20, 2005 12:36 pm
I've suggested it before elsewhere, but the one movie I'd like to see is from the other side's viewpoint. Think Das Boot with fighters instead of subs.
From a beginning concentrating on the early glory days of tearing up the low countries (lots of blue eyed blondes smiling in the French sunshine) with little effective opposition to the gradual increase in allied bombers attacking the Fatherland, and the eventual collapse into chaos and disaster... (lots of young blue eyed blonde boys taking off on their first mission and never coming back). The gradual destruction of the 'happy few' of the Luftwaffe fighter squadrons against ever greater odds, with ever greater formations of bombers and ever more incompetent leadership would make compelling viewing. Of course there is no happy ending.
If the Hollywood types desire it, they can chuck in some romance with a French girl. But end up with her head shaved, naturally. No happy ending.
From a beginning concentrating on the early glory days of tearing up the low countries (lots of blue eyed blondes smiling in the French sunshine) with little effective opposition to the gradual increase in allied bombers attacking the Fatherland, and the eventual collapse into chaos and disaster... (lots of young blue eyed blonde boys taking off on their first mission and never coming back). The gradual destruction of the 'happy few' of the Luftwaffe fighter squadrons against ever greater odds, with ever greater formations of bombers and ever more incompetent leadership would make compelling viewing. Of course there is no happy ending.
If the Hollywood types desire it, they can chuck in some romance with a French girl. But end up with her head shaved, naturally. No happy ending.
Fri May 20, 2005 12:39 pm
Well, I am biased but I think with Doc being as close as it is they should do a movie about the 509th and the A-bomb. They could get Doc and FiFi plus all the P-38s, Corsairs and Mustangs for a really good set up of Tinian late in the war.
There are plenty of interesting stories of hijinx and romance (Wells NV is just a stones throw away!) to throw in plus the flying.
my .02 worth.
Tom P
There are plenty of interesting stories of hijinx and romance (Wells NV is just a stones throw away!) to throw in plus the flying.
my .02 worth.
Tom P
Fri May 20, 2005 12:41 pm
Those would be great! Man you folk could give Hollywood a little competition. I wonder how expensive filming/editing really is. Hey, buy some surplus filming equipment, and make your own movie!
movie
Fri May 20, 2005 1:31 pm
Come on guys. Hollywood would never go for boring stuff like that.
Iron Eagle 12 a teenage street gang beats murder charges on the condition they form a super secret jet squadron to fly against the forces of evil. Sort of a Hot Shots/Dirty Dozen/Gangs of New York type mix.
And it must have jets that make round engine noise.
Iron Eagle 12 a teenage street gang beats murder charges on the condition they form a super secret jet squadron to fly against the forces of evil. Sort of a Hot Shots/Dirty Dozen/Gangs of New York type mix.
And it must have jets that make round engine noise.
Iron Eagle XII
Fri May 20, 2005 2:01 pm
..engine noises the pilots can't hear because their headphones are pumped
with rap-music while their shootin' down badguys... The movie'll make
guzzillions.
with rap-music while their shootin' down badguys... The movie'll make
guzzillions.
Fri May 20, 2005 6:30 pm
Raid on Polesti...granted most of the B-24's would be CGI but...
or one about the Air Apaches and the B-25 gun ships strafed the hell outta the south pacific...who would play Pappy Gunn?
I kinda like the Battle Of Britain idea...only do main charactors from both sides and maybe have them meet in a dog fight...Britains top guy and Germanys top guy...historical results, not hollywood fantasy (like that'll ever happen)
or one about the Air Apaches and the B-25 gun ships strafed the hell outta the south pacific...who would play Pappy Gunn?
I kinda like the Battle Of Britain idea...only do main charactors from both sides and maybe have them meet in a dog fight...Britains top guy and Germanys top guy...historical results, not hollywood fantasy (like that'll ever happen)
Fri May 20, 2005 8:42 pm
Francis Gabriski.
Pearl Harbor
Flying with the RAF
Jugs
POW
Sabre Jets
Pearl Harbor
Flying with the RAF
Jugs
POW
Sabre Jets
Fri May 20, 2005 9:34 pm
a movie about dick bong would be good as well as appropriate considering he was the top ace of ww 2. probably the most exciting & colorful movie character would be about pappy gunn, the guy that armed the b-25 mitchell to the teeth in the field, & used them in ground attack & anti shipping. he created the field mods for 75mm gun, multiple machine guns in the nose etc, etc. he was a crusty character too. loved, & respected by all who served with him. regards, tom