Heritage QF-4s at Barksdale

[67Cougar]

Two Holloman QF-4Es attended the Barksdale show last weekend. 72-1140 performed the demo, while 72-1485 served as backup. Had a blast hanging around with the pilots and groundcrew for the weekend. It was great to see them treat the old girls as if they were brand new. Bluto flew the demo, and the Heritage flight with Rifle (D-M A-10C) and Gumby (Galveston Gal).

The ground crew told me that the last QF-4G had been 'expended' in spectacular fashion a few weeks ago. They have enough QF-4s to last until about 2017, at the current loss rate. They have been told to expect their first QF-16 for ground training next year, even though there is apprently a serious issue in that program (they can't figure out where to put the destruct package to bust up the airframe adequately).

[Liberator]

Interesting - i thought all F-4G had been shot down a long time ago from notes i had seen.
I know some of the people who make the F-4 Phantom II Society work... and they too were as i recall positive the G models were long gone.

The Aussies used 22 of the F-4E(G) fleet a long long time ago when they were clean wing F-4Es as F-111 stop gaps.. and they made a big impression down under.

My mate flew in them as a navigator for a while. Loved it he says.

Good to see the F-4s are still flying.
Im trying to acquire one for a Australian museum potentially but may have to wait a while i am told ...until they are released maybe for public purchase.

[Fouga23]

Im trying to acquire one for a Australian museum potentially but may have to wait a while i am told ...until they are released maybe for public purchase.

Good luck with your effort, but I think that will not happen. Any aircraft that will be released will normally be cut into very small pieces. I think your best option would be to ask one on loan from the RAAF. It's an American aircraft, so the US still has a say in it's deposition unfortunately :/ Same think happened in the UK with their F-4's. Only some cockpit section eventually got into civil hands.

[Liberator]

Im trying through foreign air forces for loans once decommissioned....

Ive had no from some and ... come back to us later from others as they are still flying ... so a museum may still get one ......just have to sit the muntion control item list rah rah out a while longer.

Just heard recently from a "in the know source" that the ex RAAF F-111 fleet is seriously no way ever going to be in mainstream museums if this is indeed correct , due to chemcial issues in the airframe hence the scrapping price of $1m a airframe nearly... alot of decomtamination work to be done.

The toxic chemicals lurks beneath and could be exposing people in long term.... to health issues ....

If you want a F-111 expect it in 2 inch squares.....

Otherwise buy a model kit.

[12XU2A3X3]

i don't know that aussies ever operated a G. we their Es converted to G later in the US (AN/APR-39/47)?

[67Cougar]

They operated FY 69 E models. Most of the survivors were later converted into Gs, but well after they were returned to the States.

[tom d. friedman]

hard to believe that the f-16 is bound for the glue factory when it was created in the same time span as the f-15 & b-1 bomber. the b-1 is supposedly to soldier on till 2040!! if i live that long i'll be 79 years old & hopefully not eating through a straw or pushing up daisies. i find irony that the b-52 which is in it's early 60's as to age is slated to still be around then when younger technology is getting scrapped. i know the b-52's longevity can be owed to decades of upgrades..... i just can't figure out why the same strategy / philosophy can't be applied to younger types & save a financially stretched government & taxpayers some much needed $$$$

[12XU2A3X3]

FWIW the air force just decided to do a SLEP for the block 30 F-16. there are new systems coming online for 30 on up, SDBs, i think AESA and new MFDs but don't quote me on it, and some kind of helmet cuing system. they are all still a ways away.

[Keith Gaff]

The RAAF F4E Phantoms numbered 24. One was lost in Australian service and the remaining 23 were returned to the US around 1972 as the F111C became available. Virtually all were converted to F4G Wild Weasel standard, with many seeing action in the Gulf and later QF4 drone standard. Most were shot down in various missile tests. Only two are known to have survived; one which is an instructional airframe at Nellis Air Force Base and another which may still be resident at Davis Monthan in storage. The RAAF Museum has a Phantom painted up as an Australian machine which came from the US under a permanent loan arrangement. It's the only Phantom in Australia.

As for the RAAF F-111's eight are to be retained. A "C" and "G" model have become part of the RAAF Museum collection. The "G" is on display at the Museum at RAAF Base Point Cook while the "C" model is expected at the end of May. The RAAF Museums F111G will be the only example retained, the remaining survivors will all be "C" models. None will be released to private museums due the concerns regarding toxic materials in the airframe. While the aircraft is perfectly safe just sitting there inappropriate restoration techniques and a lack of familiarity with the aircraft could see toxic material released to the detriment of anyone close by.

[67Cougar]

I've heard about this toxic issue before. Anyone know what it is? I know of several -111s in private hands here in the States, and I doubt any of them went through a million dollar cleanup. Is this a real concern, is it limited to the Aussie birds or a particular mod? Or is it just an excuse?

[Liberator]

Im not at liberty to release fiull details but the RAAF used "different methods" to the USAF in using the F-111s.

The USAF and American F-111 are cared for differently and thus are able to be shared around more.

[Cking]

How could any one shoot down such a handsom beast! The F-16???? pass me a gun

Rgds Cking

[Jollygreenslugg]

G'day folks,

The 'chemical issues' situation with Australian F-111s is not a secret, indeed it has been public knowledge for over a decade. Indeed, the Australian Department of Defence and the Department of Veteran's Affairs have quite a good webpage which gives full information about the issue;

http://f111.dva.gov.au/index.htm

The three main issues which are being cited by the Department of Defence for civillian museums not getting F-111s are; 1) asbestos, 2) US Government end-user restrictions and 3) demil costs.

In addition to these, there have been issues with sealant used in the fuel tanks. As the Australian aircraft had spent time in storage before coming to Australia, the fuel tank sealant had deteriorated and work was required from the outset in 1973. Techniques and chemicals used in the four deseal/reseal programs (1977-1982, 1985-1993, 1991-1993 and 1996-1999) were later found to have real risks of contamination to the workers involved. There were also occasional 'pick and patch' repairs done to the tanks,as part of line-maintenance. These were outside the official programs. By 1999 there were hundreds of reports of illnesses and symptoms from those who repaired the fuel tanks at RAAF Amberley. A formal investigation was called and a Board of Inquiry was held. The reports from this BOI are here; http://www.airforce.gov.au/projects/f111/reports.aspx

Various studies and reports took place from 2001 onwards, and health care responses have been undertaken. These studies are summarised here; http://f111.dva.gov.au/studies.htm

A Parliamentary Inquiry was undertaken into the whole situation in 2008. Its report is here; http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/j ... report.htm

The Australian Department of Defence webpage listed at the top of this post has a page summarising the history of the situation, from which the information in this post has been obtained. Please see it for further information; http://f111.dva.gov.au/history.htm You can find the full details there. A serious health issue which has been known for over ten years, which has been investigated at the parliamentary level, for which reports have been issued and acted on is not 'inside information'. Full details are available at the link in this paragraph.

So there's no secret about it. In addition to the three main issues why the Australian Department of Defence is reluctant to release F-111s to civillian museums, the further issues of chemicals used in the deseal/reseal programs and one-off repairs means that there's no way that they'll be released as they are.

Oh yeah, those QF-4s are what we'd call "the duck's guts". In other words, they're a pretty fine piece of machinery!

Cheers,
Matt

[warbird2]

Im not at liberty to release fiull details but the RAAF used "different methods" to the USAF in using the F-111s

If you have to say that you are not at liberty to say something then you should not even be talking about it. At least from a military perspective. But since I can not find anything about you being military on your blog, then I am guessing you probably do not really know anything you are not at liberty to discuss.

[Cking]

Oh yeah, those QF-4s are what we'd call "the duck's guts". In other words, they're a pretty fine piece of machinery!

In the UK we have a similar saying "The dogs b******s"! It roughly translates into "The testicles of a canine quadraped"

Rgds Cking