Lake Michigan Wildcat
Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:22 pm
I'm working on a little Wildcat project and figured it was time I enlist the experts.
My subject is F4F-3 Bu No 12260, one of the two recovered by A&T in the early 90's and sold into private hands. Here's a shot of it from A&T's site as it came out of the water.
This plane was first assigned to NAS Jacksonville for training and then to NAS Melbourne for active war status flying patrols. After that it was assinged to NAS Glenview and used for carrier qualifications in Lake Michigan. It went over the end of the USS Wolverine's deck on 1 March 1944 and stayed there until '91.
Clearly there are two sets of markings on the plane, I'm trying to determine what it looked like at the time it went down. One set of markings is ME-F-7, and then the other is F-3. You can sort of make it out in this picture. I have footage of the plane showing the port side where the markings were still intact and it's very easy to make out.
My theory is this. I think the ME-F-7 may have been from when it was assigned to Melbourne (hence the ME? I don't know), and the F-3 is possibly from Glenview. If you look at it closely you can tell that the F-3 is over the top of the ME-F-7. It looks to me like when it was brought from Melbourne to Glenview that they just slapped the new markings over the old ones without trying to cover them up at all. Does anybody smarter than me object to this theory? I'm actually building a model of it and I think I need to display it with both sets of markings.
Thanks in advance!
Greg
My subject is F4F-3 Bu No 12260, one of the two recovered by A&T in the early 90's and sold into private hands. Here's a shot of it from A&T's site as it came out of the water.
This plane was first assigned to NAS Jacksonville for training and then to NAS Melbourne for active war status flying patrols. After that it was assinged to NAS Glenview and used for carrier qualifications in Lake Michigan. It went over the end of the USS Wolverine's deck on 1 March 1944 and stayed there until '91.
Clearly there are two sets of markings on the plane, I'm trying to determine what it looked like at the time it went down. One set of markings is ME-F-7, and then the other is F-3. You can sort of make it out in this picture. I have footage of the plane showing the port side where the markings were still intact and it's very easy to make out.
My theory is this. I think the ME-F-7 may have been from when it was assigned to Melbourne (hence the ME? I don't know), and the F-3 is possibly from Glenview. If you look at it closely you can tell that the F-3 is over the top of the ME-F-7. It looks to me like when it was brought from Melbourne to Glenview that they just slapped the new markings over the old ones without trying to cover them up at all. Does anybody smarter than me object to this theory? I'm actually building a model of it and I think I need to display it with both sets of markings.
Thanks in advance!
Greg
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:29 am
I think you're right about the F-3 code being from her Glenview days. Most aircraft operating off Wolverine and Sable had simple letter-number codes: F for fighter, B for bomber (the Air Zoo's SBD carried the code B-10,) T for Torpedo (TBFs) and J for trainer (SNJs.) When the Air Zoo's SBD was recovered, it had a similar duplicate set of markings. This is just a guess, but I think the older markings are visible mainly because they were overpainted "in the field," and the later paint didn't stick nearly as well as the original factory colors. My guess is the F4F was originally Blue Gray over Light Gray, then overpainted with the "three tone" scheme (it's hard to tell in the pic since the aircraft is still wet.) The bars and red surround would have been added to the insignia at the same time. The bars are obviously a later addition, as they are much thinner than specified.
Here are a couple pics of the Air Zoo SBD "as recovered." You can see traces of the later three-tone camouglage, white "B-10" training code, and red-bordered insignia, with the original blue-gray and "big star" clearly visible underneath.
Glenview aircraft usually had the aircraft number repeated on the cowl, and sometimes the leading edge of the wing. Here are some 1/72 models I built for a model of the USS Wolverine now on display at the Air Zoo (Bill Waldorf scratchbuilt the ship, and several members of our model club populated the flight deck with aircraft.) The SBD represent the Air Zoo's aircraft as it appeared when it went in the lake, and the SNJ is just a generic trainer with the markings based on photos and guesswork.
Here are a couple pics of the Air Zoo SBD "as recovered." You can see traces of the later three-tone camouglage, white "B-10" training code, and red-bordered insignia, with the original blue-gray and "big star" clearly visible underneath.
Glenview aircraft usually had the aircraft number repeated on the cowl, and sometimes the leading edge of the wing. Here are some 1/72 models I built for a model of the USS Wolverine now on display at the Air Zoo (Bill Waldorf scratchbuilt the ship, and several members of our model club populated the flight deck with aircraft.) The SBD represent the Air Zoo's aircraft as it appeared when it went in the lake, and the SNJ is just a generic trainer with the markings based on photos and guesswork.
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:26 am
they sure came out in much better shape before those darn zebra and quagga mussles!
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:49 am
I heard that! You can't walk along a Lake Michigan beach anymore without having your conversation drowned out by the CRUNCH! of mussell shells underfoot!
SN
SN
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:45 am
Boy, this post is all the way up my alley... Navy warbirds, awesome modeling, etc. 
First off, Steve, those are absolutely GORGEOUS... that SBD is an absolute jewel, just outstanding. Well done sir!
Second: The Air Zoo SBD is the Torch veteran, right? I'd not seen the "as recovered" pics before, and it's awesome to see the very prominent VS-41 squadron codes on it.
Third: The F4F-3... Greg, I think your evaluation is correct re: "F-3" (or maybe F-6?) being the code from Glenview and "ME-F-7" being the code from Melbourne. NAS Deland had SBDs whose codes started with DE, so it stands to reason that Melbourne would have ME. Oh, and as a modeler, did you cringe when you saw the proportions on that red-bordered star/bar on the Wildcat? That might be the thinnest bars I've ever seen on a US insignia!
I think I feel a burst of inspiration coming on to finish a Wildcat model...
Lynn
First off, Steve, those are absolutely GORGEOUS... that SBD is an absolute jewel, just outstanding. Well done sir!
Second: The Air Zoo SBD is the Torch veteran, right? I'd not seen the "as recovered" pics before, and it's awesome to see the very prominent VS-41 squadron codes on it.
Third: The F4F-3... Greg, I think your evaluation is correct re: "F-3" (or maybe F-6?) being the code from Glenview and "ME-F-7" being the code from Melbourne. NAS Deland had SBDs whose codes started with DE, so it stands to reason that Melbourne would have ME. Oh, and as a modeler, did you cringe when you saw the proportions on that red-bordered star/bar on the Wildcat?
That might be the thinnest bars I've ever seen on a US insignia!I think I feel a burst of inspiration coming on to finish a Wildcat model...
Lynn
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:23 am
Thanks guys, and beautiful models as always Steve. Looks like I'll be painting it with both markings as I thought I would be.
Steve you're absolutely correct on the color. I was surprised to see how much lighter the paint was when it warmed up and dried out. It actually was blue gray. I was kind of afraid to be showing my painted model along with these pictures because of the color difference.
You can't really tell it from this picture, but it looks like at some point the red surround on the national insignias were painted over with insignia blue. On the port side of the plane the insignia had an intact blue surround when it was recovered. The one on the bottom of the right wing still had a ton of red though, I'm not sure if anything was done with that one or if they just left it with the red. Actually if you look at the bottom right side of the star in these pictures it looks like there may have been blue painted over the red too. Or was it red over the original blue
?
Steve you're absolutely correct on the color. I was surprised to see how much lighter the paint was when it warmed up and dried out. It actually was blue gray. I was kind of afraid to be showing my painted model along with these pictures because of the color difference.
You can't really tell it from this picture, but it looks like at some point the red surround on the national insignias were painted over with insignia blue. On the port side of the plane the insignia had an intact blue surround when it was recovered. The one on the bottom of the right wing still had a ton of red though, I'm not sure if anything was done with that one or if they just left it with the red. Actually if you look at the bottom right side of the star in these pictures it looks like there may have been blue painted over the red too. Or was it red over the original blue
?
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:31 am
Thanks for the compliments, Lynn! The Air Zoo SBD is indeed a Torch veteran, and has been restored in her original VS-41 markings. According to Navy records, she scored a couple of bomb hits on the French battlewagon Jean Bart in Casablanca harbor. If you ever get a chance to visit the Air Zoo, Bill Waldorf's scratchbuilt USS Wolverine is magnificent. I was humbled to play even a small part in the project.
Will we be seeing you in Omaha in August?
Steve
Will we be seeing you in Omaha in August?
Steve
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:51 am
you ever see the model collection at the POF in Chino? I was told that's how Ed Maloney started his obsession with airplanes.lotsa models there.
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:16 am
Unfortunately the farthest west I've ever been is Tuscon, but Chno is definitely on my "bucket list," along with the Oshkosh show.
SN
SN
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:49 am
Nice models Steve! Did ya make the moving props? I'd luv to make some of those for my 1/18 collection. How'd ya do it?.............Thanks, John
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:13 pm
And, Steve, once you've made it to Chino you need to turn and head north to McMinnville... you've always got a private tour waiting for you here...
Stewart
Stewart
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:47 pm
Hey Stew! 
You really need to talk one of the Pacific Northwest chapters into hosting the Nats sometime..it would give us a real excuse to visit your neck of the woods (I was really hoping Seattle would win their bid for last year.)
SN
You really need to talk one of the Pacific Northwest chapters into hosting the Nats sometime..it would give us a real excuse to visit your neck of the woods (I was really hoping Seattle would win their bid for last year.)SN
Re: Lake Michigan Wildcat
Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:34 pm
Steve Nelson wrote:Unfortunately the farthest west I've ever been is Tuscon, but Chno is definitely on my "bucket list," along with the Oshkosh show.
SN
Fly into John Wayne (Santa Ana), rent a car there, go across to Gen Lyons' place, then drive about 30 minutes to Chino. Flights into John Wayne have traditionally run pretty cheap, and it's a "one row of terminals" airport, no trams/shuttles to rental cars crap, easy as pie. Life's short, go for it!
Stop at March AFB museum also, not far at all.
Rich