Common (allied) warbird colors?

[snj-5]

Can anyone verify any of the PPG numbers below, and/or
add to them? Over the years, I've collected various
color codes (FS595, FS = Federal Standard) for use on my
SNJ, but as you can see, I'm missing a few. Other paint
manufacturer's numbers (other than PPG) are welcome,
as usually, a paint supply outfit can cross-reference a
competitor's numbers.

Here's what I have on file:

Insignia Yellow FS # 33538, PPG DCC (Concept) #
Insignia Red FS # 31136, PPG DCC (Concept) # 74720
Insignia Blue FS # 35044, PPG DCC (Concept) # 16017
Insignia White FS # 37880 (?), PPG DCC (Concept) # 98043
Bronze Green FS # 34094, PPG DCC (Concept) #
Light Green FS # 34138, PPG DCC (Concept) #

Bela P. Havasreti

[bdk]

From FED-STD-595B (COLORS USED IN GOVERNMENT PROCUREMENT):

S3.2 Numbering System.
S3.2.1 First Digit. The first digit of the color number
indicates the color at a level or degree of gloss. The colors are
divided only into three generalized finishes; gloss, semi-gloss
and flat. For ease in judging the color matching (see also 3.3)
the color number closest in gloss to that required should be
specified. Specific levels of gloss, other than these standard
levels must be separately specified in the procurement documents.

First Digit----Finish
1-------------Gloss
2-------------Semi-Gloss
3-------------Flat or Lusterless

S3.2.2 Second Digit. The second digit of the color number
indicates an arbitrarily selected color classification grouping.

Second Digit----Predominate Color Grouping
0-----------------Brown
1-----------------Red
2-----------------Orange
3-----------------Yellow
4-----------------Green
5-----------------Blue
6-----------------Gray
7-----------------Miscellaneous (whites, blacks, etc.)
8-----------------Fluorescent

S3.2.3 Last Three Digits. The last three digits of the color
number are assigned in the approximate order of increasing
reflectance.

This standard has all the colors and the color chips. You then go to the applicable service standard:

MIL-STD-2161A PAINT SCHEMES AND EXTERIOR MARKINGS FOR U.S. NAVY AND MARINE CORPS AIRCRAFT

MIL-P-11747 PAINTING, MARKING AND INSIGNIA FOR U. S. ARMY AIRCRAFT, GENERAL SPECIFICATION FOR:

For old aircraft you wouuld need to find the superceded or older versions of these specifications depending on the era.

Once you know the color code you want, you can present the color chip to any paint store for matching. MIL-STD-595 even tells you which color components you need to mix to obtain the color.

The nice thing about MIL-STDs and FED-STDs is that they stand the test of time a lot better than manufacturer's part numbers.

[snj-5]

Thanks bdk. So, I've found numerous sites on the web that
have web-based graphics of the colors listed in FS595 (a & b),
but how do I get my paint shop to mix me up a batch of PPG
Concept / DCC (for example) to match these computer-based
digital images?

Or is there a way to acquire actual (printed?) color chips so
they can use one of those spectrometer doo-dads to come
up with a mixing solution?

The point you mention about FS595 listing specific mixing
instructions for coming up with the colors listed is intruiging
(I haven't run across that in my www travels). Do you have
a link or can you provide a reference?

TIA,

Bela P. Havasreti

[bdk]

Disclaimer
This is not an official copy of Fed-Std-595. Color
exactness is subject to any number of factors, including
your printer settings and ink or your PC color settings,
monitor age, and type.
For image viewing, please be sure your Adobe settings
are set to have Allow Background Downloading
unchecked. IHS recommends using the official
hardcopy for specifying or testing colors.
Hardcopy versions and official color chip sets may be
purchased from Global Engineering at global.ihs.com or
1-800-854-7179.

17.1 megabytes. PM me your address and I'll burn a CD and mail it. Maybe your local paint store has the color chip set?

Pigment
1 Rutile Titanium Dioxide
2 Lamp Black
4 Yellow Iron Oxide
5 Monoazo Red (Yellow Shade)
6 Phthalocyanine Blue (Red Shade)
7 Benzimidazolone Yellow
8 Phthalocyanine Blue (Green Shade)
9 Red Iron Oxide (Blue Shade)
10 Quinacridone Violet
11 Phthalocyanine Green (Blue Shade)
12 Perylene Vermillion
13 Natural Raw Umber
14 Quinacridone Magenta Y
15 Molybdate Orange (Red Shade)
16 Naphthalene Tetracarboxylic Acid
18Carbazole Violet
21 Fast Diarylide Yellow
22 Quinacridone Red
23 Brown Iron Oxide
24 Natural Burnt Umber
25 Green Chrome Oxide
26 Chrome Yellow Primrose
27 Chrome Yellow Med. (Red Shade)
31 Phthalocyanine Green (Yellow Shade)
39 Carbon Black (Blue Shade)
41 Green Fluorescent
42 Orange Fluorescent
43 Fire Orange Fluorescent
44 Red Fluorescent
45 Yellow Fluorescent
46 Fine Aluminum Paste
47 Fine Yellow Metallic

[cwilcox]

Any recent updates on where I can find PPG paint codes or tint matrices for FS595 colors?
Thanks,
Chris

[Mark V]

I maintain the best route is to match colours from an accurate paint chip. We use the RAF Museum guide for RAF colours and the Monogram books for the USAAF and US Navy colours. The latter book is very accurate in terms of both colour and sheen level and can be analysed and reproduced by your chosen paint manufacturer. You also have the advantage of being able to check the match as you have a chip to compare it with, rather than just trusting a mix code system.

[cwilcox]

Is this RAF Museum Guide a 40 page booklet?
Chris

[Matt Gunsch]

one problem with trying to match a paint chip is the fact there was a war on, and no one cared if the color was a shade off. The same FS color from different makers, could be different shades, or different from batch to batch. Modelers for years have argued about the correct shade of chromate green. I have had chromate from the same maker come out differnt shades of green. If the colors are close, as they say, it is close enough for Govt work.

[Django]

Yeah, I've been researching Dark Sea Blue for months. I have a nice headache and a dented wall to show for it.

[Mark V]

one problem with trying to match a paint chip is the fact there was a war on, and no one cared if the color was a shade off.

I cannot argue with that statement Matt but we do need some kind of benchmark today if we are to try to achieve a reasonable level of accuracy. Our own inability to constantly achieve exact paint matches mimicks what happened in period to some degree. However if we throw away our reference charts we loose that benchmark and our attempts to colour match could then become less succesful than period attempts (who were after all at least trying or were required to match to a specific colour).

Modelers for years have argued about the correct shade of chromate green. I have had chromate from the same maker come out differnt shades of green

The reason for this is zinc chromate is not a 'color' but a protective coating made by a number of different manufacturers. The chemical composition of the product is more controlled than the colour rendition and consequently there would have been many different shades of finish, even, as you say, from the same manufacturer.

Last edited by Mark V on Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

[Mark V]

Is this RAF Museum Guide a 40 page booklet?
Chris

Yes - called 'British Aviation Colours of WWII'.