Daimler-Benz DB 605 - Where are they coming from?

[Rob Mears]

I remember not long ago in the glory days of 'Black 6' when there was much discussion about the uber rarity of surviving DB-601 & -605 engines. I recall a primary source for salvagable engines at the time was one gentleman on Europe who had a little shop where he had a very small number of salvaged DB's that he was working to restore to operational condition. Fifteen years ago, the few people seeking DB's were doing what they could to find a block in any kind of condition, and the few in circulation had some type of damage.

Since that time I've seen a relatively large number of DB powered Bf-109's and He-1112's return to flight, and there are a substantial number of new airframes currently receiving the same attention. My questions is, where in the world have all of these previously unobtanium DB engines come from? From the figures I remember from that time, a proper overhaul was costing investors well over $250K on an undamaged engine, not to mention what it might cost to repair an unearthed, damaged example.

Who's got the skinny on the resurgence of the availability of DB's?

[DaveM2]

Rob

Yes Siggi Knoll in Germany was a major source of DB engines rebuilds from various sources including recovered examples.

I know that a few of the 'old timers' are starting to put there private collections up for sale to set themselves up for retirement.

Other than that I haven't heard of any 'haul' discovered anywhere.

Dave

[The Inspector]

From speaking with folks who've been allowed to have a peek or two, you would be amazed at what's stashed in barns, sheds, and cellars in Germany.

[Sasquatch]

I asked this not too long ago and--after you get past all the smart guys--there are a few explanations that might help. I'm still not entirely clear on the subject, though; but I'd be willing to bet that previously "unrestorable" engines from museum birds are now finding ways of becoming restored because the money and airframes are now there. Either that, or new blocks etc. are being machined and installed under dataplates because of the ultimate value they add to the newly restored birds. At least that's my undeducated guess and I'm stickin' to it!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42451&p=426335&hilit=daimler+benz#p426335

--Tom

PS...and I think the Inspector is right on as well.

[SaxMan]

The technology of CAD/CAM machines makes it possible to reproduce virtually any part. While the technology has been around, the cost involved in designing and machine parts that may have existed only on paper would have been exhorbitant only a few years ago. I think the combination of better technology within reach of more shops combined with the increase in value of warbirds has made this type of machining practical.

[hstandard4]

A new Roush Merlin with some upgrades was said to cost about $250k

So the DB pricing is quite comparable.
In the monetary sense.

Of course all things being variable based on condition/s of serviceable/available parts.

Wonder what the BMW 801 costed for Paul Allen!

I see a German firm has acquired an Me-109 E-1 for restoration to flight(?)

Whats hat gonna cost?

How about a running Sakae 14 cyl. for a zero?

[bdk]

I recall hearing that the nose case for David Price's 109E was a newly manufactured casting by Mike Nixon who overhauled the engine. I'm probably wrong though.

[shepsair]

bdk

You're probably right. The front casing is magnesium and always seems to be degraded/dissolved. Everything else is more robust it seems. Think 601F's are rarer than 601A's. 605's are the more common possibly as more were produced and survived post war.

Mark

[old chuck]

Did anyone know that VOLVO built DB605 engines,licensed from DB.

[gregv]

I recall hearing that the nose case for David Price's 109E was a newly manufactured casting by Mike Nixon who overhauled the engine. I'm probably wrong though.

I remember reading that as well, I think in an interview with Mike? IIRC it was about $20K just for the newly-made casting....

greg v.

[Firebird]

Did anyone know that VOLVO built DB605 engines,licensed from DB.

Yes, licence built DB605B engines for the twin-boom Saab 21 fighter, which the Swedish AF operated up until 1954.

I know of an ex-Saab engine development Engineer (Saab cars not a/c) that had restored to running an ex-Swedish Army RR Meteor tank engine and 'claimed' that his next project was one of these Volvo built DB's. Given the amount of ex-mil stuff stashed away in Sweden I'm surprised a few ex-Volvo DB's haven't surfaced.

I lost contact with this Saab Engineering about 5-6 years ago and never found out whether he did or didn't have that DB.

[mike furline]

IIRC there was a WIX thread that had some pictures from Connie Edwards place with a DB601 in the crate.

[redvanner]

Did anyone know that VOLVO built DB605 engines,licensed from DB.

When the Messerschmitt-Foundation (then MBB - Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm) started to build their first Bf 109 G-6 (using the airframe of a spanish licence built G-2, called HA-1112), they did use a swedish Volvo licence built DB 605 as powerplant. This was n o t the current D-FMBB, but the previous (1.st) one. It was severely damaged in a takeoff accident at Neuburg/Donau in 1983, IIRC.
They used a second Buchon to build the current D-FMBB, if they did use the original (Volvo) DB I do not know.

Michael

[Flagon]

Hi.

Just a little bit of information.

The SAAB/Daimler Benz deal relating to the DB605 dates from the inter war years,engines where meant
for the SAAB B-18 bombers,they were tractor engines,not pushers,as in the J 21/A 21 family,which also had slight differences.

SAAB reportedly produced its post war engines without a licence,but fees were apparently paid to the Germans whan things settled down a little.

Ciao,Francesco.

[Wildchild]

Its very likely there are alot more around the world. Here's a good example of the fact that we have no clue whats out there till we find it, except i will use cars



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