TIGHAR?

[Noha307]

I've been reading through some of the posts involving The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery, and I've noticed that the vast majority of them are negative. Why? What is it about TIGHAR that people don't like. I have browsed their website a few times, and it doesn't seem that they're a terrible organization, but maybe I missed something. According to what I've read here at WIX, I understood some of the reasons to be:

- Their theory involving Amelia Earhart isn't a good one, especially because their evidence is lacking.
- Despite their name, they haven't actually recovered any aircraft.
- All the money they've spent looking for Amelia could be better used elsewhere, specifically on some of their other projects.
- They over-promote (i.e. market) themselves.
- Their views on preserving aircraft (i.e. static display vs. flying).

I'm not sure I'm getting all of these right - but that's the reason I figured I would ask. I would please like to ask for the discussion to remain civil, and also for serious explanations - sarcastic one-liners don't really help. I sincerely want to understand why they are so intensely disliked.

[The Inspector]

The guy is crookeder than a Himalayan mountain road, he's a proven scammer and is pretty much the aviation equivalent of a travelling snake oil medicine show and three card Monty rolled into one, and those are his good points-

[SaxMan]

It sounds like you answered your own question. If you do a search on threads for some of the more legitimate warbird/aviation recovery operations and compare them to TIGHAR's operation, you'll see even further.

The best analogy would probably be the movie "Twister". TIGHAR is the equivalent of the Cary Elwes character and his organization: Overfunded and underskilled. The more legitimate warbird/aviation recovery efforts would be more akin to Bill Paxton and Helen Hunt.

[Stephan Wilkinson]

I've known Ric Gillespie for 30 years, and "The Inspector's" moronic assessment of somebody he has never met, I'm sure, is exactly the kind of response the original poster specifically said he didn't need. I really don't want to get into the kind of discussion that erupts on this forum whenever the subject of Tighar comes up, but I would be happy to discuss the issue by e-mail or even phone with anybody interested.

Since I despise the cowardice of anonymity on the 'Net, my name is Stephan Wilkinson, I've been writing for Air & Space Smithsonian since I did the cover story ("Biplanes") for the very first issue, and I'm a constant contributor to Aviation History Magazine. My e-mail address is stephwilkinson@verizon.net, and I may even know a bit more about Tighar than some of the self-elected experts on this forum, having written about them (sometimes negatively) for many years.

[PinecastleAAF]

I agree with Saxman you kinda answered your own questions. In my opinion the way they manipulate the "professionals" in the main stream media is the worst knock against their being taken seriously. It's the little boy who cried wolf over and over and over and over again. Next I'd suggest just listening to some of the words that come straight from the guy's own mouth. He always sounds to me like he is not only trying to convince more investors of the theory but also still trying to convince himself. It's good comedy.

[Noha307]

Yeah, in a way, you could say I did answer my own question. However, I didn't want to put words in anyone's mouth. I wanted to hear people's own opinions, and not what I thought they thought. In addition, I wanted to know which of the statements I interpreted, was the one people most disliked them for. I kinda felt like there was one major problem with TIGHAR, and the rest were kind of lesser reasons (not that they were less justified). And from the responses I've seen so far it appears that I was sort of correct. It seems that the Amelia theory issue and its promotion more than any of the others is the one.

One of the problems I've had with the notion that their theory is bad/that they are terrible people, is that Robert Ballard endorsed their most recent expedition. He is a man I highly respect (since I was about 5 years old ) and I doubt that he would have supported them if he thought they had the qualities that are ascribed to them.

Finally, I know I'm going to be called an idiot, but how specifically did he scam people? When someone makes a specific statement like, "he's a proven scammer", that's a very serious accusation. I have to ask for evidence of how that was proven.

[JohnB]

The more legitimate warbird/aviation recovery efforts would be more akin to Bill Paxton and Helen Hunt.

You mean they drive an uninsured Dodge pickup and expect it to save them from a tornado?
Funny how the tornado picks up everything except for their truck.

Seriously, your initial post seems to summarize the general feelings about them here.
However, I have the greatest respect for Mr. Wilkinson's opinions.

My opinions is simply that they oversell their "finds" and read far too much into them.
Anything found on the island is linked to AE...with little or no proof to back it up.
Freckle cream jar? Hers
Shoe? Hers
Piece of aircraft aluminum? Hers.

And Dr. Ballard may have endorsed their latest expedition...by that I assume he said he it was worth taking another look at the island with the gear they were taking...but not necessarily their methods, past statements or past efforts. I doubt he he and the TIGHAR folks hang around the Explorer's Club together.

[SaxMan]

One of Tighar's discoveries were the TBDs in Jaluit Atoll. Those were very significant finds. Instead of investing their efforts to getting this planes out of the water, they've been obsessed with trying to find a needle in a haystack. Anything that they find immediately fits into their theory, but so far, still no Amelia and still no Electra. For the millions spent on a wild goose chase, TIGHAR could have pulled those TBDs from Jaluit and had them restored to static, at least.

Meanwhile, the TBDs are still in Jaluit Atoll and another group found one off San Diego that is being recovered. Imagine if TIGHAR had recovered the TBDs when they found them. It would not have grabbed the headlines that an Earhart recovery did, but it would have given them credibility, and perhaps even greater support of an Earhart expedition from within the aviation community.

Like other posters, I do respect Mr. Wilkinson. However, I do challenge his assertion that we are "hiding behind the anonymity of the internet" to level criticism at Tighar. Most of us on WIX know the persona is behind the handle. For those who don't know me, I'm David Cohen and can be e-mailed at onyxsax@aol.com . Or feel free to PM me.

[Pogo]

.......However, I have the greatest respect for Mr. Wilkinson's opinions.

+1

I not only have unbounded respect for Stephan Wilkinson, but have been reading and enjoying his output since around the time the Apollo Moon missions were wrapping up. I have also been following this forum long enough to get the general drift of the love we feel for TIGHAR. I am more than willing to hear SW's comments on Ric Gillespie in the spirit of fair play and "balanced reporting". Or to put it another way, I am extremely tempted to say that if he's good enough for Stephan Wilkinson, then he's good enough for me. Dr. Ballard is a pretty convincing character too. So how about we strain WIX civility potential and see if we can't give this a fair day in court?

My ID is always posted, email is ngc704@aol.com (my spam can't get any worse)

[brucev]

TIGHAR was involved to some extent, in the recovery of a P47 in Delaware. So there, they have done something.

The Amelia hypothesis TIGHAR is pushing is just one of many theories, and like most of them it is a stretch at best. However the TIGHAR forum is very informative if you confine yourself to reading about Amelia and or the Lockheed 12, once you delve into descerning 70+ yr old aircraft parts among the ocean bottom flora and fauna off Nikkimaru (do doubt spelled wrong) the forum becomes entertaining. To be fair Rick Gillespie is not one of those pronouncing a lump of coral to be a fuel selector valve from Amelia's aircraft, though plenty others there do.

[PinecastleAAF]

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/11 ... ce-081912/

I thought this article might have been satire at first. I'm still not convinced it's not.

“Scientists have found traces of mercury on the interior surface of the little jar that we suspect once contained Dr. Berry’s Freckle Cream,” Gillespie said.

“We can not exclude the possibility that someone brought a jar of American women’s freckle cream to a British-administered island where nobody had freckles — but it doesn’t seem very likely,” said Gillespie.

Helen Hunt has freckles.....it's staring to make sense now. Maybe I should take this more seriously.

Last edited by PinecastleAAF on Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Dan Johnson II]

So why were the TBDs never followed up on? Why is the P38 still in the sand in Wales.?

Seems to me all that money being spent on the ghost of Amelia could have recovered some real airplanes.

[cooper9411]

TIGHAR could not find their own ass if you pointed it out to them

[Wildchild]

Anything found on the island is linked to AE...with little or no proof to back it up.
Freckle cream jar? Hers
Shoe? Hers
Piece of aircraft aluminum? Hers.

Piece of Iron ship found on the edge of the island? Hers.

[airnutz]

So why were the TBDs never followed up on?

Wasn't one of the last bits of news on the Jaluit TBD's that, TIGHAR and the Navy were teaming up to survey those birds? Then nothing really after that, IIRC.