Sad to see in a way but all in the name of health and safety

[peter]

From 2005 alot of guages and parts scrapped due to radium contamination!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6MCzuBHsg

[51fixer]

From 2005 alot of guages and parts scrapped due to radium contamination!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6MCzuBHsg

That company belonged to a guy I knew and had bought many items from.
He lost everything.
It was a great exposure of how Gov works and it isn't pretty.

[bdk]

Apparently this was OK for 60 years.

It disturbs me to see all those NOS instruments going into a dumpster. In the small quantities these are used in vintage aircraft, they pose no hazard. The entire warbird community lost in this incident, not just the owner. They dumped everything, not just the instruments with radium dials.

On the other hand, the owner has been in that industry for many years. He was aware of other actions regarding radium contamination at prior employers and the remediation that was subsequently required. Maybe he was in the process of cleaning up and that's how he got discovered when scrapping unsalvageable instruments? I suppose it was just a matter of time.

This individual also had stocks of instruments in various hangars at Chino airport. Those were also quarantined and cleaned up. Some tenants were not allowed access to their adjacent hangars and aircraft for some months. Hopefully the owner's health has not been negatively affected from exposure at the concentrated levels discovered in the warehouse.

I wonder how many similar sites with surplus military equipment exist in the LA area? All this stuff was purchased legitimately from surplus stocks, then confiscated by the government with no compensation. Seems like the government should be at least held partly responsible for this situation.

[cwmc]

I could never write about this with the civil and tactful tone in which you have managed, Brandon.
Chris...

[gary1954]

There are some things the government should be involved with, and this wasn't one of them.
what marroones

[Mudge]

There are some things the government should be involved with, and this wasn't one of them.
what marroones

PFFFTT...I've got a loooooonngg list of said "things".

Mudge the cynic

[StCurry7]

Why didn't the government official continue with what he started?
Why not put out an AD and require ALL aircraft effective immediately before further flight, to have a fire marshal or govt person with appropriate equipment to scan every aircraft and if needed have the instrument removed by a hazmat team and replace before continued operation? I'm mean seriously!, are they fine once they are in an airplane?

What is the statistical information on our veterans as for the effects and death rate due to the instruments?

And why has the government not gone thru EVERY aircraft owned in every museum?, govt or civilian? It's a fact they have not!

It is a shame it happened. To late now to get them back. Just another example of govt that has got to big and is out of control.

[bombadier29]

Government has gotten into this in a different area. Most airplanes owned by the military and on display will have a radiation warning on the entry. A few museums no longer let people into some government owned aiplanes because of the radiation threat.

[T-28mike]

Jeff is a great guy. He supplied many instruments for many aircraft restorations. He had new and original instruments going back to WWI, and they are all gone (as in destroyed) because of overzealous government employees! What happened to him is a small picture of what is wrong with this country's government today.

[carlisle1926]

I witnessed the EPA starting the same panic over NOS instrument face plates out at Trade Winds salvage in San Antonio when the contents were being scrapped.

[F4U-1]

Jeff is a great guy. He supplied many instruments for many aircraft restorations. He had new and original instruments going back to WWI, and they are all gone (as in destroyed) because of overzealous government employees! What happened to him is a small picture of what is wrong with this country's government today.

Amen brother! Jeff was helping us all.

[JDK]

Interesting, sad. Reactions in the thread are interesting, perhaps for the wrong reasons, too.

What real alternatives might've been open to the business owner or to the EPA would be interesting to hear.

Whether it's an overreaction or not, the days of storing W.W.II era instruments including those with radium on massed racks are gone.

I don't know whether the site was a significant or minor risk to visitors or workers or not, but neither does anyone else posting here, I suspect. Certainly you wouldn't get me in a place like that these days. On the other hand, the numbers regarding doses and overdoses quoted in the video are, without better context, meaningless.

As per bdk's response, it may well be the chap in question simply got caught in the process of trying to get clean - or was trapped in a legacy business. Yesterday's acceptable trading (storage etc.) practices aren't futureproofed, and sometimes organisations get caught in the machine. Sometimes the organisations deserve to be shaken down for negligence or wilful exposure of employees to risk - famously in Australia the James Hardie company asbestos cases.



The thing about health and safety is you just don't see the cripples about that you used to.

Cancer, obesity and heart disease are killing more of us because we aren't getting killed in industrial accidents or by industrial diseases earlier. We're also pretty hopeless as a species at managing chronic risks as against acute ones. One reason we need governments and their health and safety arm is because of humanity's track record of urinating in it's own drinking water - quite often literally.

Those bemoaning regulation of private enterprise in these cases might like to review the Radium Girls story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls

A similar example of corporate murder and maiming, although using another poison, but one familiar to us all here, is the Ethyl Corp story; centred on probably the most poisonous man in history, the undelightfully amoral Thomas Midgely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.

Then for those pointing to these instruments in this case not being corporate maleficence in the same way, and rightly pointing out how in a single cockpit some of these instruments are not a significant risk might like to consider the delights by gathering many non-risks together - in this case by an egregious idiot - the radioactive boy scout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn Interestingly, busted in 1995, Hahn appeared to be trying the same stunt all over again in 2007. I'd trust him, wouldn't you?

I've seen overreactions with plackarded /sealed cockpits on individual aircraft by national-level collections myself; and I agree they're mostly overreactions.

A couple of aircraft parts collectors in Australia have decided to quit in recent years and sell up - as has been noted, this is often a pity or a problem, but is probably inevitable.

And a final thought. Though relentlessly unmechanical, I've been in a few situations in workshops where I've been able to say 'no thank you' to a risky work idea, and feel happy when invited to enter workshops under the expectation that regulations, training, oversight and culture are all conspiring to keep the staff and visitors alive and healthy. I can't think of a single corporate organisation I'd trust to self-regulate to that standard, in any country or industry I've encountered.

Regards,

[T-28mike]

In a nutshell, The battle between Jeff and the various gov't entities was a long affair. Jeff jumped through every hoop he was presented, Got licenses he was never informed he needed previously, got every permit when asked to do so, and spent countless hours and dollars complying with ever changing requests. When it looked like he was going to win, the rules were changed again, and he was found to be in non compliance with non specific "workplace" radium levels (residential levels are spelled out, work place levels were not). As a result the property was siezed and declared a hazardous site. the building and contents were destroyed. Jeff had moved some intact instruments (which were deemed "safe" at that time) to his hangar at Chino because he feared his building would be locked down. When the rules changed again, his hangar was raided by local epa swat and contents confiscated. The epa wanted to tear down the entire row (including aircraft in hangars) but were stopped by the county.

The whole thing came down to one person that was trying to prove a point in order to make a name for themselves. That person continually put up higher obstacles everytime one was cleared by Jeff. In the end it broke Jeff, and he got stuck with an over 6 million dollar clean up bill.


P.S. don't forget the video was produced by the epa, so it's just a little one sided.

[JDK]

Sounds tough.

[gary1954]

It is a shame it happened. To late now to get them back. Just another example of govt that has got to big and is out of control.

Amen Brother, Amen...