CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with KC135
Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:53 am
...okay okay, even though the European E-3 AWACS aircraft are "merely" about 30 years old,
and the KC-135R isn't near retirement yet,
I just did not want to withhold you this clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4O8kaKMv_U
After 25 seconds things get interesting, and from 0.38 onwards downright frightening...
More details through http://theaviationist.com/2012/10/19/close-call-e3/
and the KC-135R isn't near retirement yet,
I just did not want to withhold you this clip... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4O8kaKMv_U
After 25 seconds things get interesting, and from 0.38 onwards downright frightening...
More details through http://theaviationist.com/2012/10/19/close-call-e3/
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:36 am
Yep, AR can get down-right exciting at times. Whomever was at the controls on the AWACS lost concentration for just a second and then soiled his or her flight suit in the pushover. It's hard to fault the boom operator for not calling a "breakaway" as everything happened SO quickly.
"Breakaways" themselves can be dangerous with large receiver aircraft. In fact, KC-135 aircraft commanders require a special checkout for refueling C-5's (and today, perhaps C-17's as well). The problem is that they create such a large bow wave that the wave actually pushes the 135's tail up which in turn means either the autopilot or the pilot, if hand-flying, is adding nose-up trim to compensate. A breakaway can therefore result in an extreme pitch-up for the 135.
Just glad this "incident" had a happy ending.
"Breakaways" themselves can be dangerous with large receiver aircraft. In fact, KC-135 aircraft commanders require a special checkout for refueling C-5's (and today, perhaps C-17's as well). The problem is that they create such a large bow wave that the wave actually pushes the 135's tail up which in turn means either the autopilot or the pilot, if hand-flying, is adding nose-up trim to compensate. A breakaway can therefore result in an extreme pitch-up for the 135.
Just glad this "incident" had a happy ending.
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:44 am
WHEW!!!!!!
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:42 pm
One problem with this video is that we have no horizon reference. Watching the boom however, I'm not convinced this was pilot induced. If you watch after the boom is released back to free float, it bounces several times. I wonder if they didn't fly through some momentary CAT as they were trying to establish? SierraHotelAeronautic's Facebook feed includes a comment from a KC-135 boomer that says the KC-135 may have suffered an autopilot disconnect and was the cause, not the E-3.
Also, you hear the boomer if you listen closely say "Up, up, up!" presumably over the IC to the crew and the boom launching into the tail after that was probably the crew making a separation maneuver up and left and "throwing" the boom against the tail as the boomer had probably let go of the sticks by that point.
Also, you hear the boomer if you listen closely say "Up, up, up!" presumably over the IC to the crew and the boom launching into the tail after that was probably the crew making a separation maneuver up and left and "throwing" the boom against the tail as the boomer had probably let go of the sticks by that point.
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:45 pm
Craig59 wrote:Just glad this "incident" had a happy ending.
Happy in the sense that nobody was killed, but you know there was an inquiriy later where all those involved had to 'stand tall before the man' and someone got nailed to the floorboards over this.
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:58 pm
After the boom disconnects, you can see the 135's tail pitch up compared to the horizon -- meaning, the 135 pitched down (probably an autopilot disconnect).
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:34 pm
Randy Haskin wrote:After the boom disconnects, you can see the 135's tail pitch up compared to the horizon -- meaning, the 135 pitched down (probably an autopilot disconnect).
I went back and watched the video again. You're right. Looks like the 135 suddenly went nose down after the boom disconnect and the E-3 pilot shoved the wheel forward to avoid a collision. I bet that was one helluva a pushover for the E-3 crew!
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:11 pm
Would the E-3 crew (in the back) be strapped in? I flew in an E-3 once and don't remember ever buckling in.
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:39 pm
TROJANII wrote:Would the E-3 crew (in the back) be strapped in? I flew in an E-3 once and don't remember ever buckling in.
They are equipped restraints, but I don't know what the operational rules are. I bet their coffees went all over the place.
Mike
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:08 pm
maxum96 wrote:I went back and watched the video again. You're right. Looks like the 135 suddenly went nose down after the boom disconnect and the E-3 pilot shoved the wheel forward to avoid a collision. I bet that was one helluva a pushover for the E-3 crew!
Yep, I didn't see this myself at first either. You're both apparently right.
I'd love to know what happened in the E-3, checklists, coffee and errand airmen went flying all over the place, to be sure. That was more than a few negative Gs from the way it looks. I sure hope nobody was in the can at the time, that would have gotten messy!
Re: CLOSE CALL: video near-collision tanking Nato E-3 with K
Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:31 pm
Indeed, according to http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?p=601808#p601808 medical assistence was requested by the crew while the Nato E-3 was still airborne and dumping fuel...