WWII pilots packed footlocker for sale on EBay

[Scott Rose]

I usually don't post ebay stuff but this one caught my attention. I tried to bid on it with the hopes of digitizing the pictures and manuals then donating the whole thing to a local museum but it quickly went beyond my budget. My somebody else can give it a good home.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190747800638?ss ... 1426.l2649

[CoastieJohn]

Wow! Alot of artifacts. I wonder what happened on his final flight and where he went down at and if he was recovered? Some sleuths here maybe able to figure it out.

[lmritger]

I hope to God whomever winds up with it, keeps it all together and doesn't split it up to try and make more profit off of the individual pieces... I've seen that happen more than once with groupings, and it's just disgusting.

Found him; he was in the 303rd Bomb Group, killed with most of his crew on 9 Sep 44.

"1Lt John A. Newton (pilot) killed on 9 sept 44, mission to Ludwigshafen aboard 43-38323, received direct flak hit in the cockpit and another on number 1 engine, entire nose section , left wing and number engine fell off, was on his 28th mission (source 303rdbg.com) came from Kansas, he was buried at Lorraine American Cemetery at Saint-Avold, France (he was born in 1919, now buried at Spring Hill Cemetery, Whiting, Kansas)"

Crew photo in front of "Miss Lace":

http://www.fold3.com/image/#32145071

Going to send this to a few people I know in the hopes that it will go to the proper home.

Lynn

[Richard W.]

The named items are a treasure and deserve to be kept together and hopefully displayed somewhere to signify LT Newton's sacrifice.

But, I have to say that I can see the hand of someone (a dealer or a family member, maybe?) in the group as a whole. Seems to be a catch-all for period items, some that don't fit like the Good Conduct Medal which has never been awarded to officers.

And that song book, VD pamphlet, etc.? I think people involved in a sale like this can often be tempted to gild the lily.

[lmritger]

Guys in the 303rd BGMA are already aware of it and may be looking to try and get it, which would be awesome; I reached out to the seller to see if it might be possible to get scans of the individual personal docs like the overseas orders, fitness forms, etc, as those are just ridiculously rare and groups like the Aircrew Preservation Society could use those as templates for displays at Reading and Va Beach.

Hey, what's the worst they can do, say no? Never hurts to ask, right?

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Scott!

Lynn

[JFS61]

Seems to be a catch-all for period items, some that don't fit like the Good Conduct Medal which has never been awarded to officers.

Looking through the item listing, it appears that he joined the AAC as an enlisted man shortly after the outbreak of the war, and later promoted out of the ranks as the need for qualified officer candidates increased during the war. Although the seller is correct in stating that the GCM has a three year qualifying period, he failed to mention that said period is only applicable to peacetime service, as during wartime it is reduced to one year. Therefore, there were no doubt quite a large number of GCM that were awarded to men who enlisted prior to or early in the war, and were later promoted from the ranks as dictated by manpower needs as the conflict progressed.

As others stated, this group needs to be kept together, as the intangible and historical value of the whole far exceeds the monetary value of its parts.

[Richard W.]

Thank you for clarifying the GCM award. I overlooked his enlistment dates.

[res6kgcr]

Gentlemen,

Some else seems a little out of place: what is he doing with a B-29 pilot’s flight manual?

Was he schedule for a new B-29 unit working-up since they were no B-29 transition school as of yet?

Maybe the paper work could tell more?

Best regards,

Tom

[Dan Johnson II]

Just let it stay together. I hate when folks break a time capsule up like that just for profit. Keeping it together and sharing the history that way is priceless. Wish I wealthy enough to do something about it

[jamesintucson]

But, I have to say that I can see the hand of someone (a dealer or a family member, maybe?) in the group as a whole. Seems to be a catch-all for period items, some that don't fit like the Good Conduct Medal which has never been awarded to officers.

And that song book, VD pamphlet, etc.? I think people involved in a sale like this can often be tempted to gild the lily.

I've seen both the song book and the pamphlet in multiple similar groupings. Nothing unusual about them at all.

res6kgcr: It isn't unusual for pilots to start training for one aircraft type and then end up somewhere else entirely. He was likely originally scheduled for B-29 training but either there was a sudden shortage of B-17 pilots and he got switched over probably about the time he finished his 4-engine school or he got impatient to go into combat and volunteered for an open slot.

[Forgotten Field]

Thanks for posting that, Scott!

I'm going to stand on my soapbox now and humbly request reader's notice about groupings like this. As a 32 year collector, earlier in my collection I broke up groupings. Gratefully to my ego nowadays, I didn't get anything nearly as expansive as this collection and I did at least give the individual's information to the new owner when I sold something.

The thing is, these groupings are critically important archives of individuals. While the millions of combatants which fought the way are collectively important, records like this are becoming fewer and fewer. I have watched this over the years, and while now items like this appear regularly on ebay, they still are few in comparison to the remaining individual collectibles which permeate the collectible market.

As was mentioned, breaking up groupings like this usually makes the items worth more. Subsequently, many, many groupings are broken up for this reason. The only way to stop this is to make public demand that dealers (at a minimum) take the time to manufacture provenance documents for the individual items that are sold off from collections like this. Ideally, groupings would stay together. But if a group of items is properly documented and inventoried, this reduces the criticality of keeping such an archive together.

I know many people here trade in these types of items. I just wanted to give you some thoughts on where your items may be coming from, and that responsible owners who demand proper behavior from dealers will help preserve the critical history of groupings like this one.

[Dan Johnson II]

The sad comment is that we put monetary worth before the historical value.

Two different things, that have gotten terribly mixed up.

Making a buck CAN'T be that important

[tinbender2]

I usually don't post ebay stuff but this one caught my attention. I tried to bid on it with the hopes of digitizing the pictures and manuals then donating the whole thing to a local museum but it quickly went beyond my budget. My somebody else can give it a good home.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190747800638?ss ... 1426.l2649

Don't give up yet.

The top two bidders have zero feedback.


I see similar, but smaller lots at estate auctions and local auction houses fairly often. They usually sell for $25 or less. One time, I lost out on the mother lode by a few minutes.

[Jeremy S]

Gentlemen,

Some else seems a little out of place: what is he doing with a B-29 pilot’s flight manual?

Was he schedule for a new B-29 unit working-up since they were no B-29 transition school as of yet?

Maybe the paper work could tell more?

Best regards,

Tom

I recently bought a lot of manuals and documents that belonged to a B-24 pilot who survived the war. Mixed in with his many B-24 manuals was a B-29 flight manual. As far as I know, his last missions were in November of 1944, all in Europe in a B-24, so I have the same questions that you do.

[Dan Johnson II]

Gentlemen,

Some else seems a little out of place: what is he doing with a B-29 pilot’s flight manual?

Was he schedule for a new B-29 unit working-up since they were no B-29 transition school as of yet?

Maybe the paper work could tell more?

Best regards,

Tom

I recently bought a lot of manuals and documents that belonged to a B-24 pilot who survived the war. Mixed in with his many B-24 manuals was a B-29 flight manual. As far as I know, his last missions were in November of 1944, all in Europe in a B-24, so I have the same questions that you do.

What bomb group? The 489th for example, was brought home early from the ETO to transition to B29s. Their last mission in the ETO with the 8th AF was November 1944.