B-25 Center Section delima

[gary1954]

With regard to the former 44-28765 aka N9443Z aerovintage reports in the B-25 news that “The center section of the fuselage was traded to Jim Ricketts, then of Aero Nostalgia at Stockton, where it was incorporated into a static display B-25 at Warner Robins AFB, Georgia (that airframe consisting mostly of TB-25J 44-86872).”

The Warbird Registry documents that the center section of N9443Z (44-28765) was used to “rebuild N898BW” which is 45-8898 ex-N3681G

Well… …I believe that the B25, while it has a forward and aft spar, it does not have two center sections, so the question I have is which airframe 45-8898 or 44-86872…actually received the Center Section of the defunct and broken up 44-28765 aka N9443Z…….buler…buler

I'm not tossing stones or grenades, I'd just like to know which is what and where what is

[Noha307]

Well, you're in a good deal of luck. Not only does 45-8898 happen to be at the TSWM where I volunteer; I coincidentally had a conversation about almost this exact subject with two of the guys there last weekend. We know that 8898 received the center section of some B-25, but not much more than that. My question to them was what specifically had been replaced and where that section started and ended. They speculated on some seams that were present in the skin of the aircraft that might indicate where the new section was spliced in. I never thought to ask about where the center section came from, but I'll try to remember to investigate in more detail when I go back this weekend.

What would be very useful is if you could tell me how large and exactly what part of the airframe the center section you're describing is. If I do indeed find this out, I could check whether the seams mentioned above match the size and location of the edges of the section you're talking about, and quite possibly answer both our questions.

[gary1954]

What would be very useful is if you could tell me how large and exactly what part of the airframe the center section you're describing is. If I do indeed find this out, I could check whether the seams mentioned above match the size and location of the edges of the section you're talking about, and quite possibly answer both our questions.

this is where you have me but the proverbial short hairs. ...for I do not know…
.this is why I have axed the question… ..
how much of what went where and what got the what… …Scholl… .Scholl

[aerovin]

Well, I am probably the origin point for both bits of information. My B-25 In Civil Service shows this for N898BW:

45-8898 Built as B-25J-35-NC and ready for delivery in Aug. 1945. USAAF contract terminated prior to acceptance and airframe delivered directly to the RFC at Altus, OK in late 1945. Stored at Altus until Dec. 1946 when added to USAAF inventory and flown to Pyote, TX for storage. Removed from storage in Aug. 1948 and assigned to Bolling Field, DC. and redesignated as a TB-25J. Modified by Hayes in Mar. 1954 and redesignated as a TB-25N. Remained assigned to Bolling AFB through at least 1954. Subsequent military use unknown but released for disposal by 1959. S. in Aug. 1959 to H.H. Coffield, Rockdale, TX for $2202. R. assigned as N3681G. Derelict at Rockdale, TX as of 1974. S. in estate sale to Aero Trader, Borrego Springs, CA in Oct. 1983. S. in July 1985 to Binary Warriors, Weston, MA. Trucked disassembled for rebuild by Tom Reilly at Kissimmee, FL. Reportedly, the center section of N9443Z (44-28765) was used in restoration, while center section of 45-8898 remains in storage at Borrego Springs with Aero Trader. Registration of N898BW issued in Nov. 1985. Airworthy and, as of Jan. 1996, based at Avra Valley, AZ. S. in July 1997 to Don George, Springfield, IL.

I am certain that Carl Scholl provided me with the center section information on this airframe back in the early 1990s. He also recently sent me this about my questions:

"You are really taxing our memories. But, we just figured a little more out. The center section of Piece of Cake went to Ricketts for the Warner Robbins AFB B-25 he built. He made a fiberglass cockpit section and used the rear fuselage from the Idaho fire dept airplane. We have the center section of the Idaho plane in the desert. We gave him the wings from the Vega dope hauler 3680G for Warner also."


So, I could ask Carl to recheck his memory but I'll probably wait awhile....don't want to make it any more confusing that I already have.

And, by the way, I think the center section is the fuselage section (with the bomb bay) to which the forward and aft sections are bolted and also includes the wing inner sections with engine nacelles, to which the outer wing panels are bolted. It is a big assembly and the heart of the airplane.

[gary1954]

[quote="aerovin
And, by the way, I think the center section is the fuselage section (with the bomb bay) to which the forward and aft sections are bolted and also includes the wing inner sections with engine nacelles, to which the outer wing panels are bolted. It is a big assembly and the heart of the airplane.[/quote]

this is the way I always thought it to be....

[Noha307]

Cool, thanks for the information!

My question is, why the swap out of center sections? My best guess is that 8898's wasn't in good shape due to corrosion or something like that, but I have no idea.

S[old] in Aug. 1959 to H.H. Coffield, Rockdale, TX for $2202.

I ran that through a quick online inflation conversion calculator - that would be $17,420 in 2012 dollars! If only I had the chance...

"The center section of Piece of Cake went to Ricketts for the Warner Robbins AFB B-25 he built."

Wait. Which B-25 was "Piece of Cake"? It sounds like you're referring to 8898. I would like to know, because if our aircraft had another nickname, that would be pretty cool. Also cool to know that, assuming the above does refer to 8898, the original center section still exists. Now I can maintain the pipe dream of returning the original center section to 8898 in all my historical integrity crazed madness.

And, by the way, I think the center section is the fuselage section (with the bomb bay) to which the forward and aft sections are bolted and also includes the wing inner sections with engine nacelles, to which the outer wing panels are bolted. It is a big assembly and the heart of the airplane.

This basically is the understanding the guys at the museum had. We were basically trying to establish where exactly the center section started and ended.

EDIT: When I was at the museum the other day (the 12th I think) I went and re-asked about the center section of our B-25. The replaced section, according to their best estimates, strangely does not line up with the rear of the bomb bay. The section actually appears to end about a foot forward of the rear end of the bomb bay. Also, there is a strangely riveted patch along the top of the fuselage where the two sections meet, higher up along the same joint described in the previous sentence. The patch is a strip of metal about an inch wide, with two columns of rivets running along it.
EDIT 2 (06/02/13): Thought I'd include links to the Warbird Registry entries for 44-28765 & 45-8898