Mystery of Hindenburg air catastrophe solved... Really?

[HawkerTempestMKII]

I think this counts as a warbird, since it had a swastika on it..

Saw this on yahoo news..

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mys ... 32922.html

So they really finally solved it? Really? Wasn't it obvious? H2 gas is extremely flammable, and static electricity for the spark, duh?

[Speedy]

I thought they proved years ago that it was the dope/paint they used on the nylon that was what caught fire. Hydrogen explodes instantaneously (pops, if you will), but the dope was essentially made up of the same components of gunpowder, and that's why it was essentially a 'slow-burn' fire that started at the back and moved forward, as opposed to it all going up at once. The hydrogen bags did explode, but that isn't the fire that you see burning in the film and pictures.

Oh well.

Maybe that same team can go help out TIGHAR and they can come to the conclusion that Amelia mysteriously disappeared.

[HawkerTempestMKII]

From my chemistry lab in college, I know hydrogen burns and ignites in a flame just like the hindenburgh did. Dope and paint is used on many aircraft and that hasn't happened before as far as I know..

[Rajay]

I heard a news story recently about an Australian businessman who plans to waste (I mean spend) his fortune building an exact replica of the Titanic ocean liner in China. (I guess he figures that he can't take it with him when he goes.) Supposedly they're already booking reservations - whereas the most expensive accomodations on the original went for the equivalent of $70,000.00, the ones on the new Titanic II will go for more like $1,000,000.00 per trip.

My first thought was to wonder if they have plans to build a Hindenberg II or build a new spa and resort near Pompeii in Italy!

[T-28mike]

I guess you never heard of Nitrile Dope.

Hydrogen only burns (like many things) when mixed with an oxidizer. This accounts for the "slow burn rate". Although, (approx) 36 seconds ain't that slow to consume over 7 million cubic feet of gas. The thing was burning as fast as it could breathe.

[HawkerTempestMKII]

No, hydrogen burns when exposed to a spark. We played with it in chem lab.

[T-28mike]

I think you should demand a refund on your chem-lab education.

No oxidizer, no fire, no kidding.

[bdk]

I guess you never heard of Nitrile Dope.

Neither have I! Maybe you mean nitrate?

Nitrocellulose with nitrogen below 12.3 percent is used for lacquers, coatings and inks. Nitrogen content above 12.6 percent is considered an explosive.

The problem with nitrate dope and cotton fabric is that it WILL support combustion. I knew a guy that was banner towing in a Tri-Pacer that caught fire. By the time he landed on a street in Los Angeles, all the fabric on the fuselage was gone. He was very lucky to have survived! http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 9617&key=1

Last edited by bdk on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[HawkerTempestMKII]

T-28 Mike:

I think you should demand a refund on your chem-lab education.

No oxidizer, no fire, no kidding.

Wikipedia:

Hydrogen gas (dihydrogen or molecular hydrogen)[12] is highly flammable and will burn in air at a very wide range of concentrations between 4% and 75% by volume.[13] The enthalpy of combustion for hydrogen is −286 kJ/mol:[14]

hmm, you must be right and the whole world is wrong! I am impressed!

[shrike]

The Hindenburg was not covered with normal doped fabric, but rather the fabric coating was a mixture of nitrile rubber and aluminium powder.
This happens to be basically the same thing that was used as fuel the Shuttle's solid boosters, so while the hydrogen did burn, and can be seen to be escaping from the burst cells and burning over the envelop, it was not the primary cause or fuel of the fire.

Apparently the Zeppelin company had already determined the danger of the coating, and had reformulated it with addition of a bronze powder acting as a retardant. This formulation was slated for the Hindenburg's sister ship Graf Zeppelin II, and for the Hindenburg herself at the rest refit.

It was politically expedient to quash that report, and point the finger at the US for denying Germany the helium the ship had been designed for in the first place.

[T-28mike]

BDK, sorry, Nitrile = Nitrate.... I've got o-rings on the brain.

Chris,
Read your own wiki-link "Hydrogen gas (dihydrogen or molecular hydrogen)[12] is highly flammable and will burn in air at a very wide range of concentrations between 4% and 75% by volume.[13] The enthalpy of combustion for hydrogen is −286 kJ/mol:[14]

Fire requires three elements to sustain itself. Fuel, Oxidizer and Heat. Take away any one, fire goes out (does not start).

[bdk]

Chris,

Air is the oxidizer and hydrogen is the fuel. I'm not sure I understand your point?

In the case of nitrate dope and cotton, the cotton is a fuel (as would be any elemental hydrogen nearby), but I think the nitrocellulose dope acts as both a fuel and oxidizer when ignited- like a solid rocket fuel.

[bdk]

The Hindenburg was not covered with normal doped fabric, but rather the fabric coating was a mixture of nitrile rubber and aluminium powder.

So Mike, it sounds like you were right after all, there is nitrile dope!

As silly as these discussions can get at times there is still a lot to be learned.

[mike furline]

I believe the Hindenburg was plastic.......HELLO!

[p51]

And to think, the US learned this lesson fifteen years earlier when the semi-rigid airship Roma went down in Virginia, ending the Hydrogen era for the United States.