Pappy shoots down a Hellcat, gets credit for a zero ...

[Mark Allen M]

Anyone ever hear of this incident? First time I've heard of it. Not entirely uncommon for these things to have happened, but I'm not sure the credit for a zero sounds accurate.



AJ Press:

"F6F-3 Hellcat serial no. 25389 'Betsy II', assigned to Lt. dick Moore, of the guadalcanal-based VF-38, fell to an F4U flown by Maj. Gregory 'Pappy' Boyington, one the top-scoring USMC fighters, on 16 September 1943. Initially Moore thought he was attacked by a 'Zero'. hit at least twice from a distance of 100 yards, the aircraft started to lose oil. Seeing that the attacker was a Corsair, Moore fired a warning burst, which ended the attack. Moore made a perfect ditching in his damaged machine and was soon located. And boyington was credited with downing a 'Zero'..."

More info at links below.

Pacific wrecks:

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/f6f/25839.html

Michael McFadyen's website:

http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info/vi ... age_id=392

[Obergrafeter]

More reason that Joe Foss was the leading Marine Ace.

[JohnB]

Odd that anyone would make a mistake like that from that (100 years) distance.
A Hellcat's wings look nothing like a A6M.

But it gives the resident experts here a chance to complain about another ace...they don't care for: Boyington (to add to Yeager).
If it did happen as described, I'd remind the armchair "aces" out here that they've never been in a dogfight and mistakes were frequently made.

[Mark Allen M]

Odd that anyone would make a mistake like that from that (100 yards) distance.
A Hellcat's wings look nothing like a A6M.

Far more common than you think, Dad used to state he and many other pilots in his VF's were usually more concerned about being shot at my "friendly's" than "enemy", especially during the late part of the war. Lots of inexperienced pilots, lots of frayed nerves, lots of miscommunication and confusion. Airplanes whipping by at high speeds in the other direction can be easily miss-judged for something they are not.

If it did happen as described, I'd remind the armchair "aces" out here that they've never been in a dogfight and mistakes were frequently made.

Is that coming from experience or from another "armchair ace"
Had to mess with ya a bit there John.

[JohnB]

If it did happen as described, I'd remind the armchair "aces" out here that they've never been in a dogfight and mistakes were frequently made.

Is that coming from experience or from another "armchair ace"
Had to mess with ya a bit there John.

I agree with you, it happened a lot, guys were nervous.

But I'm not calling anyone out for it.

[SaxMan]

There was a square-winged variant of the Zero called the Hamp, which was often cited as the culprit for incidents of friendly fire at F6Fs.

Tom Blackburn recalled in his biography "The Jolly Rogers" about a B-25 squadron commander who was p.o.'d that his formation was attacked by a Hamp while under escort by VF-17. As it turned out, it was an F6F squadron commander who made a firing run on the B-25s. That same commander was there while Blackburn was getting dressed down by his superior and didn't say anything. When the story straightened out, the F6F commander was out of a job.

As we've seen in countless threads, Boyington tends to be a fairly divisive subject here on WIX. I do think the one thing that can be agreed upon is that while leading VMF-214, he was the right man in the right place at the right time with the right airplane. Whether his biography embellished upon 214s accomplishments (and smeared Joe Smoat in the process) doesn't change that 214 was a very effective fighter squadron.

[Mark Allen M]

Nothing against Boyington other than the famous "you buy my book and I'll give you an autograph" incident at Oshkosh when I was a small boy. (to me anyway) First and last time I ever asked anyone for an autograph. I had a small photo of him and I waited in a long line to ask for him to sign it. He said "Nope! buy my book first" ...

Never thought of him the same again after that wonderful experience, but as for his USMC VMF-214 Corsair days and beyond? Well I just let history judge the man. Not for me to judge as I spend more time thinking about whether the mail will arrive on time.

If indeed he shot down a Hellcat and was given credit for a zero kill? Who knows as I've heard of stranger things happening back then. The Hellcat pilot survived to fly another day and that was a good thing.

As for "calling him out" naw!!! not me, just stating a combination of facts and fiction, you be the judge of what you want to take in. I'm sure with a bit more digging the answers can be found.

[shepsair]

The F6F was new in theatre with VF-33, VF-38 and VF-40.

I think this was the first combined operation with F4U-s, P40's, SBD's and TBD's. There was a lot going on.

I forgot it was Moore that was shot down. I thought it was Presley.

Also there was an argument between Boyington and LtCdr Anderson of VF-38 about another claim as well. It was either in the first chapter of Blackburns or Boyingtons book?

regards

Mark

[p51]

Reminds me of that part of "Piece of Cake" series where they finally get gun cameras and 'Skull' proves to the Adj that the pilots are indeed mis-ID'ing what they're shooting at or missing completely when they review the films (one of which clearly shows on of their pilots lighting up another Spitfire when his after action says he shot up a 109).
Like many of you, I've talked with plenty of fighter pilots over the years. One said bad ID of a target was like problems in the man department in that, "Any pilot will tell you it happens to all pilots... except him, of course."

[67Cougar]

It can happen ...

A pilot who served in the 555TFS at the same time as Steve Ritchie told me a few years ago that Ritchie's fourth 'kill' was a Phantom. He said he saw the gun camera film, and the heavy twin exhaust smoke from the target was unmistakable ... I have no idea if that story is true or not (cause I didn't see the film), but the guy was dead serious about it - and he did not like Ritchie or the pedestal he was put on at the time of his 'ace chase'.