Vice Presidential B-17? (1949)

[Chris Brame]

I posted this over at Aero Vintage, but maybe our Daviemax would have the answer:

Here's another little find from the Chicago Tribune:

Yikes.
So, was there a particular B-17 that was used as Air Force Two, or was it drawn from a pool of VB-17s?

[Xrayist]

If I remember correctly, and I have a pic of it someplace, there was a B-17 owned by the Chicago Tribune publisher. I believe that the VP talked about in this story has to do with that newspaper and not the US government. I think this is it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chicago ... org%252Fb1 You might have to cut and paste.

[daviemax]

Thanks Chris

Determining the exact serial number will take some longer-term research but one obvious candidate is VB-17G 44-8990, which was assigned to 1101 Base Flight, Bolling Field and was used to transport Winston Churchill during his 1946 visit. Below is (unfortunately) the best-quality photo I have of this aircraft. Note insignia on stabilizer and passengers with gear near entrance door on the other side of the aircraft.

[daviemax]

If I remember correctly, and I have a pic of it someplace, there was a B-17 owned by the Chicago Tribune publisher. I believe that the VP talked about in this story has to do with that newspaper and not the US government. I think this is it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chicago ... org%252Fb1 You might have to cut and paste.

Alben Barkley was in fact the Vice-President of the U.S. under Truman so the aircraft would be a USAF special missions VB-17G.

[Chris Brame]

Thanks Davie!
And one mystery begets another. The Tribune has this photo of a B-17E presented thusly:

A B-17 bomber purported to have been paid for with their war bonds is christened by children of Our Lady of Lourdes parochial school, located at Ashland and Leland Avenues in Chicago, in June 1944. According to the caption on this archive image, "36 such planes have been bought by Chicago public and parochial school children." — Chicago Tribune historical photo

Somebody sold 'em a used plane! Seriously, though, what are the two tubes running across the top of the nose glass frame? Are they for removing fumes from the nose gun, or external braces for the gun mount? I've never seen such a mod before. Note also the added F-style cheek gun.
Any ID on the name? "Ready....." - with a bear holding a bomb.

[dbrown]

By 1944 they would have been making G versions I thought. My guess is that given the condition of the paint this is a veteran B-17 back from the front on a war bond drive - or perhaps relegated to a training squadron (which might explain the mod on the nose?). The 'Bishop' (a la Monte Python) and the kids probably took a trip to the local training field for the photo op.

There also appears to be the name 'Frances' on the area below the cockpit.

The regular public probably would not have known the difference of a 'new' plane ready to be shipped off to combat and a training bird.

DB

[daviemax]

This one is going to take some digging. The aircraft appears to be a B-17F with an -E nose piece modified for a forward-firing .50, the mount for which is visible. The external bracket apparently is a reinforcement to handle the recoil. A quick search of databases for "Ready. . ." and "Frances" has so far turned up nothing of value.

I do agree it is likely a combat veteran returned for a training assignment. The date given (June '44) will be helpful in pinning it down. However, looking for aircraft located at Chicago Municipal in June '44 none (again, so far) were combat veterans. One interesting example is 42-5469 which arrived there 18 June after spending time at Wright Field with Material Command - which could explain the nose modification.

[CoastieJohn]

Got a little mystery here. Looking at the nose art up real close and the word "Frances"......could the nose art be a mule (as in Francis the talking mule) holding a bomb? The timing would be about right for the Francis movies with Donald O'Conner.

If it's a bear, then.....

Maybe one of the (at least) 3 versions of Ready Teddy ??

http://forum.armyairforces.com/B17-Read ... 30146.aspx

From the above website.

Wallace Forman's book "B-17 Nose Art Name Directory" has 3 "Ready Teddy" listed -- one assigned to the 92nd BG/407th BS (42-30008 - lost on 30 Jan 44), one with the 452nd BG (serial number not known), and one with Air Sea Rescue (serial number not known). There was also a "Ready Teddy II" assigned to the 92nd BG/407th BS (42-31783 - lost on 9 Sep 44).

In the below pic note the text of "Ready" is almost the exact same as the mystery aircraft and the location of the name "Dorothy". Also have a bear throwing what looks like a bomb. Could "Frances" have been on the other side of one of the Ready Teddy's to follow the same location pattern? The pic also came from the above website.



There was also a Ready Freddie and a Ready Bettie

[daviemax]

The name Ready Teddy appeared on several Fortresses - at least two G's that were lost in combat and one "B-17H" that has not yet been correlated to a serial number. There was also an F-model called Ready Teddy - the Last of the Itsabitchis which was also lost in combat. None of these aircraft match the profile of the F-model with modified E-nose depicted in this thread. More work needed!

[dbrown]

John I think you have it - the same style lettering on the 'Ready' and (a thin thread no doubt) what appears to be the same chipping on the #3 engine cowling.

[CoastieJohn]

John I think you have it - the same style lettering on the 'Ready' and (a thin thread no doubt) what appears to be the same chipping on the #3 engine cowling.

Well, I looked at the other "Ready's" (Freddie and Betty) again. Stepping back for a second, I do not think it would be those as the nose art is sexual and I don't think the good sisters at the Lady of Lourdes there in Chicago would want to contaminate the kids minds with sexy nose art. Could there be another Ready named something else with a bear for nose art?.....I suppose it's slightly possible.

At that link above one of the posters said his dad is the 3rd guy from the left in the Ready Teddy pic we see. The poster stated they were doing altitude testing with a Ready Teddy in 1943. He didn't say where. I would speculate any performance testing would be in the states?? Is there anyway whatsoever his dad's B-17 Ready Teddy was modified for the altitude testing to what we see in the Lady of Lourdes pic?? I would have no idea, the smart guys here would have to figure that out. The Lady of Lourdes pic is June of 1944. IAW with another poster there, a Ready Teddy II crash landed in France in Sept of 1944 and was salvaged in November 1944. The 1943 / June '44 / Sept '44 / Nov '44 timeline would work out. What is going in the yes category is the nose art, the font and spelling, the women's names below the windows. What says no is what Dave is saying. The clues are pretty strong both directions. I would not rule it out unless it is impossible for that Lady of Lourdes B-17 to have a unique modification done to it for the altitude testing in 1943. The mystery continues......

[aerovin]

If I remember correctly, and I have a pic of it someplace, there was a B-17 owned by the Chicago Tribune publisher. I believe that the VP talked about in this story has to do with that newspaper and not the US government. I think this is it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chicago ... org%252Fb1 You might have to cut and paste.

All very interesting but I think this is a reference to N5116N (44-85507), a surplus B-17G owned by the Chicago Tribune and used by its publisher, Robert McCormick, between 1947 and 1952.

[SaxMan]

Pulling up my copy of Scott Thompson's "Final Cut", there are two B-17 survivors that saw VB-17 duty at Bolling:

44-6393 - now at March ARB in Riverside - static display

44-83546 - now the "Movie Memphis Belle"

Both appear to have been at Bolling during the time of this incident.

[daviemax]

Pulling up my copy of Scott Thompson's "Final Cut", there are two B-17 survivors that saw VB-17 duty at Bolling:

44-6393 - now at March ARB in Riverside - static display

44-83546 - now the "Movie Memphis Belle"

Both appear to have been at Bolling during the time of this incident.

Regarding 44-6393, she was assigned to the Far East until November 1949, when she was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa, Ontario. Therefore it isn't very likely this aircraft was the one carrying Barkley.

Regarding 44-83546, she was General Lucius Clay's personal aircraft when he served in Europe in various high-level capacities after the war (he was military governor of Germany from March 1947-May 49 and oversaw the Berlin Airlift). According to Scott Thompson she also served other high-ranking officers in Europe during this time, which is logical. However, neither Final Cut nor my records show when the aircraft returned to the U.S. so it is not entirely clear -546 was serving at Bolling when the near-miss occurred.

An excellent candidate aircraft is VB-17G 44-83809, which was assigned to 1100 Special Air Missions Group, Bollling from December 1948. Photo of this aircraft is shown below:

[SaxMan]

What was the final disposition of 44-83809?

It seems that if a B-17 managed to survive the mass scrappings, the odds of it finding its way into civilian hands went up dramatically.