Pilatus P3-04 question. Calling Tulio
Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:04 pm
I know I've probably asked this before, probably many times. So I'll chunk this post up there with my yearly T-33 P80 post.
At this site,
http://www.pilatusp-3.com/modules.php?o ... =0&thold=0
The following aircraft are listed,
N-501 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
N-504 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
N-505 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
N-506 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
I was hoping Tulio or one of the LAAHS guys would have some info on them. I've actually emailed the General of Supplies (I think that was it) of the Brasil Marine and recieved no answer, I wasn't expecting one, but it was worth a try.
The story on these aircraft is interesting. www.pilatusp-3.com has a lot of info on the history of the P3-05, and these aircraft are part of it.
I've always liked the P3-05. The only info I've gotten on them has been from the P3-05 site, and some info from Ollie. I want one. But, like most folks, I don't have the financial wherewithall to pay in cash, or to finance an experimental catagory aircraft (usually not possible). That leaves the project route for me, and those four potentials are the only ones I know about.
Reading Martins good news got me thinking about these planes again. Any info is appreiciated. So Calling...
Tulio/LAAHS- Any Brasil Marine info on these would be cool, including the possible availability or inavailability.
Martin- Any info/ anectdotes on the prototypes you now have the big beautiful access to.
Ollie- Any info/anectdotes on the importation of your aircraft and what you think of it's flight characteristics, or comparisons, to the other aircraft you own and fly.
P3-05's are starting to become an obesession bordering on the T-28 and T-33 mania that already grips me. Whats a bummer about it is, I've never seen one in real life. Any pics would be cool too. FAB pics would be awesome.
I don't have much to offer in return, but I'll have access to two of my favorite T28's this saturday, so any specific pictures you guys may want, I'll take them for you, or anyone else that wants to see something specific.
Thanks Again,
Orvis
At this site,
http://www.pilatusp-3.com/modules.php?o ... =0&thold=0
The following aircraft are listed,
N-501 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
N-504 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
N-505 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
N-506 P3-04 Ex Brasil Marine Dismantled
I was hoping Tulio or one of the LAAHS guys would have some info on them. I've actually emailed the General of Supplies (I think that was it) of the Brasil Marine and recieved no answer, I wasn't expecting one, but it was worth a try.
The story on these aircraft is interesting. www.pilatusp-3.com has a lot of info on the history of the P3-05, and these aircraft are part of it.
I've always liked the P3-05. The only info I've gotten on them has been from the P3-05 site, and some info from Ollie. I want one. But, like most folks, I don't have the financial wherewithall to pay in cash, or to finance an experimental catagory aircraft (usually not possible). That leaves the project route for me, and those four potentials are the only ones I know about.
Reading Martins good news got me thinking about these planes again. Any info is appreiciated. So Calling...
Tulio/LAAHS- Any Brasil Marine info on these would be cool, including the possible availability or inavailability.
Martin- Any info/ anectdotes on the prototypes you now have the big beautiful access to.
Ollie- Any info/anectdotes on the importation of your aircraft and what you think of it's flight characteristics, or comparisons, to the other aircraft you own and fly.
P3-05's are starting to become an obesession bordering on the T-28 and T-33 mania that already grips me. Whats a bummer about it is, I've never seen one in real life. Any pics would be cool too. FAB pics would be awesome.
I don't have much to offer in return, but I'll have access to two of my favorite T28's this saturday, so any specific pictures you guys may want, I'll take them for you, or anyone else that wants to see something specific.
Thanks Again,
Orvis
Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:18 pm
Orvis:
One P-3 survives in Brazil, as far as I know.
I am PM'ing you a list with contacts both in Brazil and in the USA, who could probably -probably- help you out with additional information.
Of them, Senhor Fernando Parodi is very likely the surest and more knowledgeable, and in-situ.
This photo of the P-3 (probably at San Pedro de Aldeia, or as the navy guys in Brazil call it, St. Pierre de Village) was shot in 2004, by
Luiz Carlos M. Brandão.
Of notice, the non-standard canopy.
Now, this book by Pedro Lynch, documents the history of the Brazilian Navy's air component, and mentions the acquisition, use and if I remember correctly, the disposition of the P-3s.
The Flight of the Cinza Falcon:
Subtitled:
Four decades of struggle and determination, narrated in a selection of memorable facts and events, as seen and lived by a Navy Officer specialized in Naval Aviation.
The book is published in Portuguese, and I believe that Contra-Almirante Lynch is still around and owns a company that provides logistical support for the A-4BRs now in service with the Brazilian Navy.
Saludos,
Tulio
One P-3 survives in Brazil, as far as I know.
I am PM'ing you a list with contacts both in Brazil and in the USA, who could probably -probably- help you out with additional information.
Of them, Senhor Fernando Parodi is very likely the surest and more knowledgeable, and in-situ.
This photo of the P-3 (probably at San Pedro de Aldeia, or as the navy guys in Brazil call it, St. Pierre de Village) was shot in 2004, by
Luiz Carlos M. Brandão.
Of notice, the non-standard canopy.
Now, this book by Pedro Lynch, documents the history of the Brazilian Navy's air component, and mentions the acquisition, use and if I remember correctly, the disposition of the P-3s.
The Flight of the Cinza Falcon:
Subtitled:
Four decades of struggle and determination, narrated in a selection of memorable facts and events, as seen and lived by a Navy Officer specialized in Naval Aviation.
The book is published in Portuguese, and I believe that Contra-Almirante Lynch is still around and owns a company that provides logistical support for the A-4BRs now in service with the Brazilian Navy.
Saludos,
Tulio
Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:38 am
O.P.
I will have to dig in my files for the Pilatus P-3 stuff - interestingly the Brazilian Navy flew the aircraft without the additional fin below the tail -
here's a link with a few photos - will post photos of the prototype and other impressions later.
http://www.portalmilitar.com.br/aviacao ... atusp3.htm
Martin
I will have to dig in my files for the Pilatus P-3 stuff - interestingly the Brazilian Navy flew the aircraft without the additional fin below the tail -
here's a link with a few photos - will post photos of the prototype and other impressions later.
http://www.portalmilitar.com.br/aviacao ... atusp3.htm
Martin
Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:07 am
found this 
N.B.: there currently is a Pilatus P-3 flying in France with Brazlian color scheme !
Martin
N.B.: there currently is a Pilatus P-3 flying in France with Brazlian color scheme !
Martin
Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:04 am
Ha, the little Pilatus!
We imported three of them (A-817, A-863 and A-868) back when they were sold by the Swiss Army. We had some troubles in getting a permit to fly them, but in the end we were able to work a deal with Transport Canada so we could fly around. Since then, there's a new permit in Canada for Warbirds and classics that makes things so much easier. We had zero troubles when we brought in the Focke-Wulf, since the permit was in force.
Flying :
The Pilatus is the nicest flying aircraft I've ever flown. The controls are light and crisp, you just think about a manoeuver and the aircraft makes it happen. It's like flying a Spitfire I guess...
It is underpowered, and you really feel it when it's hot in the summer. Two big guys (200lbs), fuel fuel (250lbs) and you feel the thing dragging on and on on the runway, you tuck up your butt and it takes-off. Push the nose down a bit, accelerate while you still have unobstructed airport space ahead and reduce to climb power. Off you are. In the air, it's a jet. It has a laminar flow wing, it will do any airbatics (classic ones that is) and will just go down the hill like a bat out of hell. The Vne is quite high, around 600 km/h.
Pattern and landings are easily completed, although in a busy pattern with Indians (aka Cessnas and Pipers), you feel that the aircraft is draggy with the gears and the flaps out. However, a clear pattern will see you make spiffy aproaches. Since all the speeds are marked by coloured lines, it's very easy to fly : Gear down - white, reference speed - yellow, etc...
On landing, it never bounces, the shocks are that good. Keep back pressure on the stick, hold the nose high and let the aircraft brake itself, like a F-16. I hardly use brakes on our 3 000' runway with that method. The brakes are the weak point, they are Goodyear's and could use some bittyness from Clevlands. I know it can be done, there's one in Philly with Clevelands I heard...
The cockpit layout is spot on, all you need in the air is on the left side of the pit. All the other stuff, like the starter, primer, switches are on the right.
The only lowdown, save for the limited power, is the very limited range. With 150 liters of fuel and a 60 liters/hour consumption, you need to plan your trips. 160NM is really the max you should do before refuelling. However, the gauges are very accurate.
Compared with the Focke-Wulf, the Pilatus is like a Spit, while the Wulf is the Bf 110. It can carry alot, but is not very nervous, and is extremely forgiving. If I have to go far or land on a short strip, the Wulf is the plane of choice, but for everything else, the Pilatus wins. The superior cockpit layout makes it a pleasure to fly.
You may hear bad things about geared engine, but they are very reliable, if you know their history. Abuse won't help them, but they will give you 1 500 hours with good care. Our friend, who own one of the P-3 we imported has its engine on condition now, and it's still doing great. Be gentle with it, like you would with a turbocharged one, think in advance, etc.
I won't compare it to the Caravan, because that beast of a Cessna isn't quite in the same league!
I'll dig up pictures.
One last note : maintenance. It's a breeze, the aircraft opens up very easily and is very well designed. It takes about one day and a half to do the annual on ours.
We imported three of them (A-817, A-863 and A-868) back when they were sold by the Swiss Army. We had some troubles in getting a permit to fly them, but in the end we were able to work a deal with Transport Canada so we could fly around. Since then, there's a new permit in Canada for Warbirds and classics that makes things so much easier. We had zero troubles when we brought in the Focke-Wulf, since the permit was in force.
Flying :
The Pilatus is the nicest flying aircraft I've ever flown. The controls are light and crisp, you just think about a manoeuver and the aircraft makes it happen. It's like flying a Spitfire I guess...
It is underpowered, and you really feel it when it's hot in the summer. Two big guys (200lbs), fuel fuel (250lbs) and you feel the thing dragging on and on on the runway, you tuck up your butt and it takes-off. Push the nose down a bit, accelerate while you still have unobstructed airport space ahead and reduce to climb power. Off you are. In the air, it's a jet. It has a laminar flow wing, it will do any airbatics (classic ones that is) and will just go down the hill like a bat out of hell. The Vne is quite high, around 600 km/h.
Pattern and landings are easily completed, although in a busy pattern with Indians (aka Cessnas and Pipers), you feel that the aircraft is draggy with the gears and the flaps out. However, a clear pattern will see you make spiffy aproaches. Since all the speeds are marked by coloured lines, it's very easy to fly : Gear down - white, reference speed - yellow, etc...
On landing, it never bounces, the shocks are that good. Keep back pressure on the stick, hold the nose high and let the aircraft brake itself, like a F-16. I hardly use brakes on our 3 000' runway with that method. The brakes are the weak point, they are Goodyear's and could use some bittyness from Clevlands. I know it can be done, there's one in Philly with Clevelands I heard...
The cockpit layout is spot on, all you need in the air is on the left side of the pit. All the other stuff, like the starter, primer, switches are on the right.
The only lowdown, save for the limited power, is the very limited range. With 150 liters of fuel and a 60 liters/hour consumption, you need to plan your trips. 160NM is really the max you should do before refuelling. However, the gauges are very accurate.
Compared with the Focke-Wulf, the Pilatus is like a Spit, while the Wulf is the Bf 110. It can carry alot, but is not very nervous, and is extremely forgiving. If I have to go far or land on a short strip, the Wulf is the plane of choice, but for everything else, the Pilatus wins. The superior cockpit layout makes it a pleasure to fly.
You may hear bad things about geared engine, but they are very reliable, if you know their history. Abuse won't help them, but they will give you 1 500 hours with good care. Our friend, who own one of the P-3 we imported has its engine on condition now, and it's still doing great. Be gentle with it, like you would with a turbocharged one, think in advance, etc.
I won't compare it to the Caravan, because that beast of a Cessna isn't quite in the same league!
I'll dig up pictures.
One last note : maintenance. It's a breeze, the aircraft opens up very easily and is very well designed. It takes about one day and a half to do the annual on ours.
Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:07 am
Here's our A-817 on the post-annual run-up.
Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:08 am
P-3 and Focke-Wulf after a day of flying last summer.
Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
and I'll dig up photos from the day these birds were auctioned off
some in-service photos
the following photos were taken by my friend Walter Hodel
Martin
some in-service photos
the following photos were taken by my friend Walter Hodel
Martin
Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 am
Those are great photos, Martin!
Who is / was the photog? You?
Saludos,
Tulio
Who is / was the photog? You?
Saludos,
Tulio
Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:50 am
I saw a P-3...
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 4895fcKPCX
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 5067Mxmqzl
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 4900oPAadr
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 4990GZoAsV
...at the North Carolinas Aviation Museum...
http://community.webshots.com/album/431174701GVwnkw
...in Asheboro last September. Here is what I have on it...
Model: P-3-05
s/n: A-842 Swiss AF
c/n: 480-29
c/r: NX842JM, P3-05, 480-29
Owner: Charlie 33 Inc.
Mike
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 4895fcKPCX
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 5067Mxmqzl
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 4900oPAadr
http://community.webshots.com/photo/431 ... 4990GZoAsV
...at the North Carolinas Aviation Museum...
http://community.webshots.com/album/431174701GVwnkw
...in Asheboro last September. Here is what I have on it...
Model: P-3-05
s/n: A-842 Swiss AF
c/n: 480-29
c/r: NX842JM, P3-05, 480-29
Owner: Charlie 33 Inc.
Mike
Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:31 am
Hi Martin,absolutely stunning pics.Can you tell me what the large strake under the rear fuse is for,is it some sort of anti-spin device,all the aircraft seem to have except the yellow P-3 in your first pic.Cheers,Pete
Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:56 am
The large thingie under the fuselage is additionnal keel area to prevent the aircraft from entering an inverted spin (that is spinning on its back).
In the POH, they said that without it the aircraft could enter such a spin, but with it it's quite impossible to do. I believe they lost one P-3 because of such and afterwards they applied this fix.
I prefer the look of the aircraft with the fin, because it makes it look so much more meaner.
In the POH, they said that without it the aircraft could enter such a spin, but with it it's quite impossible to do. I believe they lost one P-3 because of such and afterwards they applied this fix.
I prefer the look of the aircraft with the fin, because it makes it look so much more meaner.
Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:29 pm
Tulio, Martin, Ollie,
Thanks Dudes!
I'm puting all of this info in a folder for future reference. Hopefully we'll be able to see those Brasil P3-04's in the air one of these days also!
Thanks Again,
Orvis
Thanks Dudes!
I'm puting all of this info in a folder for future reference. Hopefully we'll be able to see those Brasil P3-04's in the air one of these days also!
Thanks Again,
Orvis