Latest NASM / Garber Restorations
Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:21 pm
Anyone know the current restorations that are underway at the Paul Garber restoration facility? The web site doesn't update anymore.
It would be nice if the B-17 Swoose and the B-26 Flak Bait got started.
In my opinion, these aircraft could be put on display at the Hazy center
unrestored, but assembled until they are ready to enter the restoration cycle. That goes for the P-61 and B-25 as well..........
It would be nice if the B-17 Swoose and the B-26 Flak Bait got started.
In my opinion, these aircraft could be put on display at the Hazy center
unrestored, but assembled until they are ready to enter the restoration cycle. That goes for the P-61 and B-25 as well..........
Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:24 pm
The P-61 is being moved out to Dulless. It may already be there, although I do not know for certain. I do know that it was being disassembled for UHC in October.
Cheers,
Richard
Cheers,
Richard
Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:03 pm
i thought flak bait was already restored!!!! i must lead a sheltered life!!! 
best, tom
Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:21 pm
I know I might take some heat for the following statement, but I don't think they should EVER restore "Flak Bait".
I've been involved with historic aviation for many years, and for many of those I was an Associate Curator at the New England Air Museum. I even occasionally take one of the of "Flak Bait" former pilot's up flying and let him have "at it" again. He's a good friend of mine and we discuss the "restoration" of his airplane quite often. He agrees with what follows.
That said, the best think that the Smithsonian should do is to check any corrosion that might have set in. Replace what might be missing from the aircraft, reassemble her, clean her well and only touch up certain areas of the paint, such as the nose where, before they got smart and put up a plexiglas barrier, the public could touch and lean in to look through the glass nose. The millions of hands that touched this area has caused it to lose it's paint. There's now a big shiny aluminum blemish on the nose that was not there when the aircraft's nose was first put on display at NASM.
The aircraft should remain in this state. The original paint IS "Flak Bait". If the paint is removed and the aircraft brought up to "restored" status, she will lose the "coat" that she wore in combat. That coat can only be replaced by new paint, and I've yet to see any restored aircraft, museum bound or otherwise, that has made an exact duplicate to the millimeter of the combat paint and artwork. Even the nose art applied to "Jack's Hack" (the B-29 at the New England Air Musuem) is not exactly in the original location and sports the addition of the artist's "modern" style signature.
IRAN the aircraft but don't "restore" it. "Flak Bait" is too valuable an asset to strip it down and make it "pretty" again. There are only a handful of WWII aircraft out there in their original paint. It would be a crime to lose another one. As a matter of fact, the Royal Navy Museum in the UK just " de-restored" their Corsair by slowly taking off the coat of paint that was added when she went on display and bringing the aircraft's original surface and paint out. She now looks like a Corsair would've when in service, battle-worn and dinged up a bit. I love it and hope that it becomes a growing trend.
I use this anology when I discuss restoration: If you have Gen. Washington's saddle, and over the years, the leather rots away in certain areas and is replace each time with a new, exact copy of the piece that detriorated, sooner or later you no longer have Gen. Washington's saddle. You will simple have a few metal parts that were, at one time, part of the General's saddle.
My two cents on the subject of "Flak Bait".
Blue skies,
Jerry
I've been involved with historic aviation for many years, and for many of those I was an Associate Curator at the New England Air Museum. I even occasionally take one of the of "Flak Bait" former pilot's up flying and let him have "at it" again. He's a good friend of mine and we discuss the "restoration" of his airplane quite often. He agrees with what follows.
That said, the best think that the Smithsonian should do is to check any corrosion that might have set in. Replace what might be missing from the aircraft, reassemble her, clean her well and only touch up certain areas of the paint, such as the nose where, before they got smart and put up a plexiglas barrier, the public could touch and lean in to look through the glass nose. The millions of hands that touched this area has caused it to lose it's paint. There's now a big shiny aluminum blemish on the nose that was not there when the aircraft's nose was first put on display at NASM.
The aircraft should remain in this state. The original paint IS "Flak Bait". If the paint is removed and the aircraft brought up to "restored" status, she will lose the "coat" that she wore in combat. That coat can only be replaced by new paint, and I've yet to see any restored aircraft, museum bound or otherwise, that has made an exact duplicate to the millimeter of the combat paint and artwork. Even the nose art applied to "Jack's Hack" (the B-29 at the New England Air Musuem) is not exactly in the original location and sports the addition of the artist's "modern" style signature.
IRAN the aircraft but don't "restore" it. "Flak Bait" is too valuable an asset to strip it down and make it "pretty" again. There are only a handful of WWII aircraft out there in their original paint. It would be a crime to lose another one. As a matter of fact, the Royal Navy Museum in the UK just " de-restored" their Corsair by slowly taking off the coat of paint that was added when she went on display and bringing the aircraft's original surface and paint out. She now looks like a Corsair would've when in service, battle-worn and dinged up a bit. I love it and hope that it becomes a growing trend.
I use this anology when I discuss restoration: If you have Gen. Washington's saddle, and over the years, the leather rots away in certain areas and is replace each time with a new, exact copy of the piece that detriorated, sooner or later you no longer have Gen. Washington's saddle. You will simple have a few metal parts that were, at one time, part of the General's saddle.
My two cents on the subject of "Flak Bait".
Blue skies,
Jerry
Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:05 am
Jerry
Couldn't agree more...they have done this with the P-38 and it looks fantastic.
Dave
Couldn't agree more...they have done this with the P-38 and it looks fantastic.
Dave
Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:10 am
One of NASM's primary policies is to preserve aircraft in their original paint if at all possible. Very few aircraft can meet this of course, because they've usually deteriorated too far not to require more than cosmetic restoration. Flak Bait certainly does meet the requirements, as far as I am aware, of being preserved in her original paint work, so I really don't think you have anything to worry about.
Cheers,
Richard
Cheers,
Richard
Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:12 am
Some time ago I heard that NASM restorations involve processes that will preserve the aircraft for many decades, if not a century or more. I would imagine that this would involve more than just presenting the aircraft in a climate-controlled area.
I’ve always been curious as to what some of the long-term preservation processes may be. Obviously, they would be much different that restoration or maintenance to flight condition.
I’ve always been curious as to what some of the long-term preservation processes may be. Obviously, they would be much different that restoration or maintenance to flight condition.
Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:23 am
I agree with the Flak Bait discussions. Keep it original. Does anyone know the history of that aircraft after the war i.e. when was it delivered to the Smithsonian? Did it always stay protected indoors?
Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:13 am
...more information about the B26 Flak Bait can be found at NASM's web site and that might answer questions about its history. It also includes a picture of the nose & forward fuselage as on display "downtown".
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/ai ... in_b26.htm
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/ai ... in_b26.htm
Is it all there?
Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:39 am
Apologies if this seems a pretty basic (or dumb) question, but does the NASM have ALL of "Flak Bait"? I have seen the photo of only the forward fuselage for so long I started to wonder. Roger Freeman wrote in "The Mighty Eighth" that the whole airframe was preserved. From what you guys are saying it seems that it's all there, just the rest of it is in storage.
Inquiring minds etc etc...
Rob / Kansan
Inquiring minds etc etc...
Rob / Kansan
Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:59 am
The NASM does in fact have all of "Flak Bait." As mentioned in this thread already, the forward fuselage is on display in the original building on the mall. The remainder is in storage at the Garber facility in Maryland. Some day (hopefully soon) the entire plane will be on display in the new building located in Chantilly,Va.
Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:00 am
I happen to have two small but original snapshots of "Flak Bait" taken post VE-Day (Summer 1945) when parked at R-77 Gablingen airfield in Germany.......
Martin
Martin
Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:27 pm
Pat Carry wrote:The NASM does in fact have all of "Flak Bait." As mentioned in this thread already, the forward fuselage is on display in the original building on the mall. The remainder is in storage at the Garber facility in Maryland. Some day (hopefully soon) the entire plane will be on display in the new building located in Chantilly,Va.
I'm happy to have that confirmed. Thanks, Pat!
Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:44 pm
Swiss Mustangs wrote:I happen to have two small but original snapshots of "Flak Bait" taken post VE-Day (Summer 1945) when parked at R-77 Gablingen airfield in Germany.......
Martin
Well post them..go on...you know you want to
Dave
Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:08 am
Yes indeed, please do post!! And I would love to add those pics, with permission and credit, to my site. B26 Marauder.com
Airdales, would the pilot be Sherman perchance? If so, please tell him I said hello.
Airdales, would the pilot be Sherman perchance? If so, please tell him I said hello.