"civilian" warplane manufacturers?

[Stephan Wilkinson]

The Douglas B-26K Counter Invader was manufactured--the conversion went well farther than what would normally be considered a modification--by On Mark Engineering, which until then was best-known for turning surplus B-26s into loud business aircraft.

Are there other examples of "civilian" companies producing warplanes? (By civilian I mean firms not previously engaged in the production of aircraft for military contracts.) The only one I can immediately think of is Piper and its Enforcers, but that wasn't even a successful program.

I'm sure semantics will play a part in any discussion--assuming any ensues--but am looking for companies that did more than just re-engine an existing aircraft or, say, add a cargo door...

[DH82EH]

Does Cavalier count with their P-51 conversions?

Andy

[Stephan Wilkinson]

Yes, but that's essentially what I meant by "Piper and its Enforcers."

[quemerford]

Yes, but that's essentially what I meant by "Piper and its Enforcers."

...except that Piper has/had an illustrious business producing military machines such as the L-4 Grasshopper, L-18 etc.

[John Dupre]

I have read that 8 or 9 MFI-9 training aircraft were turned into armed attack aircraft in France for delivery to Biafra during the Nigerian civil war in 1968-69. The aircraft were civilian models that were upgraded with 24 volt electrical systems and structural mods for the installation of hard points for weapons and were quite successful in action.

Similarly Rhodesia bought a number of civilian type Cessna 337 Skymaster aircraft and turned them into counter insurgency aircraft with wing hard points and machine guns mounted on the cabin roof making them similar to the USAF O-2 type less the fixed guns.

Also in Rhodesia there was at least one civilian owned and flown Beech Bonanza with two machine guns mounted on the wings and used as a sort of auxiliary to the air force.

[Stephan Wilkinson]

And here we get into the semantics...is a Navion with stars and bars a warplane? A Twin Beech? A Useless 78? A J3? I'm really looking for civilian manufacturers of bomb-dropping, gun-shooting warplanes, with apologies to the L-bird crowd.

And with apologies to John Dupre, what I'm looking for is any major-war aircraft that I will be embarrassed to have overlooked when I write my B-26K article for Aviation History magazine and say that the On Mark airplane is "the only example in living memory of a civil manufacturer having produced a true warbird with a major-war combat record" or something of the sort.

[quemerford]

Thus forgetting offensive ops with warbugs then. Narrow your criteria enough and you'll make a point I guess.

[Stephan Wilkinson]

Or I could widen the criteria and end up with Saab Safirs flying in Biafra as comparable to B-26K Counter Invaders...

[sandiego89]

And here we get into the semantics...is a Navion with stars and bars a warplane? A Twin Beech? A Useless 78? A J3? I'm really looking for civilian manufacturers of bomb-dropping, gun-shooting warplanes, with apologies to the L-bird crowd.

And with apologies to John Dupre, what I'm looking for is any major-war aircraft that I will be embarrassed to have overlooked when I write my B-26K article for Aviation History magazine and say that the On Mark airplane is "the only example in living memory of a civil manufacturer having produced a true warbird with a major-war combat record" or something of the sort.

I might suggest changing it from "the only example in living memory of a civil manufacturer having produced a true warbird with a major-war combat record" to something like: "one of very few civilian manufactures producing an aircraft that was used in a front line combat role...." I would avoid absolutes like "only" and other gray areas someone is bound to come up with an example that will turn them off from your article. They will think of things like Cessnas, L-birds, Ayers, Pilatus, Goodyear (under contract) etc. and consider them significant, and numerous aircraft that were later modified for combat use like Condors, C-130's, P-3's ,etc, etc- even if you are trying to emphasize front line combat types. There are also numerous examples of civilian companies making warbirds such as the Mosquito and gliders under license- even furniture companies, piano companies, pullman train companies, etc.

[PropsRule]

Would the Howard 500 count?

[shrike]

I'll second avoiding the absolutes otherwise you'd have to tailor your description to avoid:

Mooney M-19 - armed version of the M-18 Mite
Air Tractor 802U -armed and armoured variant of their Ag plane
Ayres Vigilante - ditto

and probably a few more I can't think of off hand

[Stephan Wilkinson]

Yes, you're both right. Resorting to absolutes would be a mistake, but I still don't think a gunned-up Mooney Mite needs to be considered on the same grounds as a B-26K. And I don't think of Cessna as a civilian-only contractor (as On Mark was), because they have fulfilled a number of purely military contracts, the best-known of which is probably the T-37/A-37.

But I will keep your good advice in mind.

[Stephan Wilkinson]

Would the Howard 500 count?

No. I don't know of any Howard 500s that flew in combat, though certainly plenty of Lodestars did.

[shrike]

Part of the question is defining 'civilian' in this context. There are vanishing few strictly 'civilian' aircraft companies, and none willingly. Even Van's supplied a large Nigerian contract.

Other possible examples;
PZL M-26 Iskierka and ENEAR T-35 Pillan. Both two seat trainer/light attack aircraft derived, ultimately, from the Piper Cherokee.

[K5DH]

Isn't Cessna currently building an armed version of their Caravan? I believe it started as a civilian airframe.